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Posted on Sep 4, 2016
Should Military (Active Duty, Reservist & Guard) be allowed to "sit", in support of personal beliefs, during the National Anthem?
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http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/09/politics/navy-sailor-sits-national-anthem/index.html
I know many even wondered why I asked this question. I knew it was going to be a matter of time. I hope justice is served to this Sailor.
Here is another protest during the reciting of the Pledge of Allegiance. By a State Senator, no less.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/09/16/missouri-state-senator-sits-during-pledge-allegiance.html
I know many even wondered why I asked this question. I knew it was going to be a matter of time. I hope justice is served to this Sailor.
Here is another protest during the reciting of the Pledge of Allegiance. By a State Senator, no less.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/09/16/missouri-state-senator-sits-during-pledge-allegiance.html
Posted in these groups: 
Human Rights
Freedom of Speech
Human Rights Freedom of Speech
Edited 9 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 148
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SPC Les Darbison
Sgt Justin Vickers - Your Right And I agree all active duty should stand for the Anthem and I feel most Veterans and there family members will always do so . Is the protocol here to stay solely on the original topic or to expand and have real open debate on the status of , and the direction our Country is headed. The potential of our current liberals leaders and if Hillary is allowed to continue Obamas Agenda to fundamentally change America our Constitution is at risk of fundamentally being changed for ever ! I have a real problems with Hillary who left Americans to die to cover her and Obamas political collective assess. And the colution in Government at ever level to defend the efforts by liberal progressives IE Socialist to curb free speach ,and personial freedoms laid out in the Constatution and the Bill of Rights.
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SPC Les Darbison
SPC Les Darbison - Every thing is all tied together nothing stands alone. Like our leaders defending Islam and attacking Christianity in General and definitely doing so in Military .
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PV2 Glen Lewis
SGT (Verify To See) - I think perhaps it is a chance to vent your feelings on this to more than to just friends and family.
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You should not be wearing the uniform and serving if your belief system goes against the United States and it's customs and courtesies. Everyone takes an oath:
ENLISTED
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
OFFICER
"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance tot he same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God."
The key phrase here is "that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same".
ENLISTED
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
OFFICER
"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance tot he same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God."
The key phrase here is "that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same".
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Bergman Oswell
CPT Lawrence Cable - By that standard, members of the US military are not and cannot be US citizens. The Constitution does not say that the rights it enumerates are conditional on not being an active member of the militia, nor does it specify that the highest court might lack jurisdiction over a portion of the citizens of the United States. The only thing it does have to say on the matter, is the prohibition on creating a less privileged class of citizen.
But suppose you're right and the law does support everything you claimed -- I'm sure you can cite the relevant portion of the Constitution, and explain why, with a government subordinate to that Constitution in every way, the government is able to designate a group of citizens that are exempt from that Constitution, yet somehow remain citizens.
I won't hold my breath, though.
But suppose you're right and the law does support everything you claimed -- I'm sure you can cite the relevant portion of the Constitution, and explain why, with a government subordinate to that Constitution in every way, the government is able to designate a group of citizens that are exempt from that Constitution, yet somehow remain citizens.
I won't hold my breath, though.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
Bergman Oswell - The link provided has the applicable case law and the Supreme Court of the United States has final say in the matter of interpreting the Constitution. Then when you add this part of the Militia clause, "Clause 16. The Congress shall have Power * * * To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress." , it allows for the organizing and disciplining of the Militia as prescribed by Congress, which is what Uniform Code of Military Justice provides, a method of disciplining the Militia and Regular Army. More pertinent information. https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/article-1/58-the-militia-clauses.html
Constitution of the United States of America: Analysis and Interpretation (US Constitution Annotated)
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Bergman Oswell
CPT Lawrence Cable - Congress also has the authority under the Constitution, to enact laws for civilians, which must conform to the Constitution or they are rendered null and void by it. Where in the Constitution does the Constitution say that Congress can do whatever it wants to the military, even if it would be unconstitutional?
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CPT Lawrence Cable
Bergman Oswell - It does not have the authority to organize or discipline civilians, it does Militia and Military. There are plenty of links to the case law in the post above, read them if your are really interested. Be aware that your interpretation of the Constitution doesn't mean anything without case law to back it up.
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CAPT Hiram Patterson
Yes, only for physical impairment! Unless you want to explain yourself to the XO, CMC or CSM!
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I am all for exercising your right to stand or sit out of uniform, but you are the face of the Nation while in uniform.
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GySgt Joseph Jay Johnston
I'm a Korean war veteran (wia)chosin...1st mars I not only stand but I hand salute the flag and stand and face the the music from our nat'l anthem..at attention.
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GySgt Joseph Jay Johnston
I forgot to add under the new law veterans can hand salute,even tho I always did, law or no law.....
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SPC (Join to see)
This shouldn't even be a fuc$ing question why even put on the uniform if your not proud to wear it. Weather it be wearing civilians or in uniform standing for the flag/anthem should be always be a sign of respect shown. Let's take your enlistment day for example. Standing before the flag with your right hand raised. Taking a oath to serve and protect. It's flat out stupid to give military personnel the choice to stand or sit during the national anthem or presenting of colors.
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While serving, it's a regulatory issue.
When out, it's a Freedom of Expression issue. Though I may disagree with those who choose not to stand that is their Right, and I'll fight for them not to. It's not Freedom if you don't have the choice to ALSO not do it.
But Freedom of Choice is NOT Freedom from Consequence. Others can view their choice how they like, and make decisions accordingly.
When out, it's a Freedom of Expression issue. Though I may disagree with those who choose not to stand that is their Right, and I'll fight for them not to. It's not Freedom if you don't have the choice to ALSO not do it.
But Freedom of Choice is NOT Freedom from Consequence. Others can view their choice how they like, and make decisions accordingly.
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Cpl Fletcher Haizlip
1stSgt Nelson Kerr - no 1stsgt didn't know that ,I thought it applied to everybody in service (I stand corrected)
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1stSgt Nelson Kerr
Cpl Fletcher Haizlip - A lot of people thingk that Reservists and guardsmen have identical rights to active duty troops, That is not true most of the time when they are out of Uniform mitary regs and the USCMJ are utterly irrelevant to them since they are CIVILIANS. What is funny is there are quite a few people here who think things like Uniform regulations also apply to retirees as anything more than guidance.
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SSG John Karr
1stSgt Nelson Kerr - You are correct - it does not mention uniforms. It would probably go un-noticed except by the few people near him/her. If somehow it did make it back to his/her unit there is nothing they could do... except make drill weekends and AT miserable for that SM.
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Bergman Oswell
If you can be punished as a criminal is for exercising a protected right, then that punishment is the criminalization of that right. When the Constitution says "Congress shall make no law" without including exceptions that Congress can actually make such laws for (and don't forget, Congress enacted the UCMJ), then any such law is unconstitutional, and any enforcement of such a law is direct opposition to the Constitution.
Anyone who issues or passes on an order to enforce such a law is a domestic enemy of the Constitution as a direct result. For it to not be an illegal order, it would have to be possible for Congress to ignore the Constitution without amending it, and supposedly Congress lacks that power.
Anyone who issues or passes on an order to enforce such a law is a domestic enemy of the Constitution as a direct result. For it to not be an illegal order, it would have to be possible for Congress to ignore the Constitution without amending it, and supposedly Congress lacks that power.
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1stSgt Nelson Kerr
CPT Tom Monahan - After discharge the oath doesn't include any more than that since the remainder doesn't apply anymore< for example who do you think is an officer appointed over a person with the ran Of "Mr." What other part of the oath do you think applies to a retiree or other civilian? Do you think that you or I outrank a guy who was discharged from basic as a E-1?
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CPT Tom Monahan
I agree that "citizen" is the highest rank. For retirees, we are "subject to recall. By the time the get to broken down horses like me we've lost.
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Hell no! This question makes me see RED! You are a service member who swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution, not some damn civilian. If you can't show respect for the flag you need to get the hell of the military as fast as possible. Remember, you "give up" certain rights when you are a military service member.
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