Posted on Sep 4, 2016
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http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/09/politics/navy-sailor-sits-national-anthem/index.html

I know many even wondered why I asked this question. I knew it was going to be a matter of time. I hope justice is served to this Sailor.

Here is another protest during the reciting of the Pledge of Allegiance. By a State Senator, no less.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/09/16/missouri-state-senator-sits-during-pledge-allegiance.html
Posted in these groups: Human rights logo Human RightsFreedom of speech logo Freedom of Speech
Edited 9 y ago
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Responses: 148
SFC Robert Walton
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They both swore an oath and should be Treated Accordingly. Rules and Regulations are NOT something to just ignore, it would be the same in a civilian Job if I swore to do X and didn't Do X then I am subject to punishment Up to and including being fired.
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CW3 Kevin Storm
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Only if you are in a wheel chair and crippled from the waist down.
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1SG Dave Carello
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How many NO's or statements of disgust could I say that would be powerful enough of a response? My response will be nothing new to any of my Brothers here young or old but, I will say. The National Anthem, and Pledge of allegiance is NO place for your "personal" political agendas or gripes or sullen attitudes. The National Anthem, and Pledge Are what the ARE PERIOD and, we have ALL witnessed our deceased Veterans caskets covered by this flag of honor both black and white on their "Final Ride". There is NO valid option in this CURENT land of a few entitled enabled sheep who are told they don't have to render proper honors. I say, BULLSH!T!! I say, Get OFF your well fed COWARD ARS and knees and Stand. I think a few of us within these pages know WHATs COMMING!
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LTJG Edward Bangor Jr
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Off base and out of uniform, this should be considered free speech. SCOTUS can still override the UCMJ. Perhaps that is what this will eventually come to. The problem is that the case usually cited in giving defence to the DoD doesn't actually consider off base, off duty activity. It's a case from 1974 about an Army doctor shooting his mouth off when dealing with patients and personnel he was training. I fully believe the UCMJ should apply in that case. But if too much leeway is given to limiting the rights of the service member, we could end up with a system that makes it unlawful for you to sign a petition. It's an inherently slippery slope, and SCOTUS sides with the DoD a little too readily. And it's worth noting that nowhere in the Constitution we all swore to uphold that the rights detailed within it should be limited for members of the military.
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SSG Wally Lawver
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Hell no
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SPC Kwesi Morris
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Here is one more person forgetting their military bearings...
http://michaelbaisden.com/navy-sailor-refused-stand-national-anthem-threatened-jail/
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SGT Charles Bartell
SGT Charles Bartell
9 y
Kind Of Sailor Obama Want's. I Say Kick Her Out. Article 15 Her Under Article 92. Then Conduct Unbecoming Of A N.C.O. . Then Chapter Her Grounds Of Misconduct.
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PO1 Kerry French
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HELL NO!
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SGT Mary G.
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Isn't the issue actually about the etiquette of honoring the flag?

The National Anthem. If people can take an oath to defend the Constitution, the racist part having been amended, maybe they can stand for the National Anthem too for the purpose of honoring the flag.
The Pledge of Allegiance. Unless there are religious considerations and the military honors them, I say stand but to honor the flag but don't recite if there is religious objection.

I haven't been paying attention to the brouhaha and only skimmed through the offending verse. I understand the verse in question is considered to be a racist verse. Francis Scott Key does not have the opportunity for a do-over. But in reality, how many times has anyone ever heard that verse sung? How many times is it ever sung? It is NOT sung at public events. Unless there are religious considerations and the military honors them, I say stand and salute if in uniform because, in actuality, the playing of the National Anthem is a signal to salute the flag. So it is not actually the National Anthem for which people stand, is it? It's the signal to stand to honor the flag.

The flag represents our nation - everything good about it. If people think by honoring the flag it is honoring what is wrong with our nation, then they aren't doing their own part to keep our nation on the right path. Stand at reveille and retreat too . . . to honor the flag.

Something is wrong with the State Senator who is protesting. I wouldn't vote to reelect him. Surely there is diplomatic protocol/etiquette (not unlike military courtesy) that is expected of folks serving in government?
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SGT Charles Bartell
SGT Charles Bartell
9 y
What Offending Verse. Racist Have You Read The Stare Spangled Banner ?
You Need To Read The Story About Where , Why The Song Was Written.
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SGT Mary G.
SGT Mary G.
9 y
I have read the history, SGT Charles Bartell, though not recently. And now I have also read about the history of which I was unaware that is associated with the brouhaha. Are you aware of it?

Apparently the mention of "slave" in verse three and "freeman" in verse four offend protestors; and that Francis Scott Key was a slave owner and did not think very highly of Africans in his day. Seems more of a protest about Key than the verses of our national anthem.

And apparently the folks protesting say that verse three reflects the political situation associated with the Battle of Fort McHenry:

"[. . .]And one of the key tactics behind the British military’s success was its active recruitment of American slaves. As a detailed 2014 article in Harper’s explains, the orders given to the Royal Navy’s Admiral Sir George Cockburn read:

Let the landings you make be more for the protection of the desertion of the Black Population than with a view to any other advantage. … The great point to be attained is the cordial Support of the Black population. With them properly armed & backed with 20,000 British Troops, Mr. Madison will be hurled from his throne.

Whole families found their way to the ships of the British, who accepted everyone and pledged no one would be given back to their “owners.” Adult men were trained to create a regiment called the Colonial Marines, who participated in many of the most important battles, including the August 1814 raid on Washington.

Then on the night of September 13, 1814, the British bombarded Fort McHenry. Key, seeing the fort’s flag the next morning, was inspired to write the lyrics for “The Star-Spangled Banner.”

So when Key penned “No refuge could save the hireling and slave / From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,” he was taking great satisfaction in the death of slaves who’d freed themselves. His perspective may have been affected by the fact he owned several slaves himself. [. . .]"

excerpted from a from a Kaepernick article that was excerpted from a long 2014 article:
http://harpers.org/archive/2014/09/washington-is-burning/
Kaepernick article:
https://theintercept.com/2016/08/28/colin-kaepernick-is-righter-than-you-know-the-national-anthem-is-a-celebration-of-slavery/

I can understand being offended by the history. Who isn't? It may be Key's third verse is like a statement of fact in reference to the history. Do I think our national Anthem is racist because it accurately reflects the political environment associated with the history of the battle? No. Was it a celebration of slavery when written? Not necessarily. I think it reflects the political situation. . . . which included slavery existing in the colonies, Do I think Key was racist? Yes.

I still say the national anthem is the signal to stand in honor of the flag of our nations . . . the nation we have made and continue to improve (hopefully).
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SGT Charles Bartell
SGT Charles Bartell
9 y
SGT Mary G. Yes It Look's Like I Missed Some History About The Song.
Verse #3. It Is Amazing That You Have The Ability To Go Back In Time And Read Some One's Mind. Could You Tell Me If He Was Dancing And Singing Knowing That Slaves Where Killed. Why Are You Not Calling The British Racist ? After All They Where The One's Shelling The Fort.
Then There Is Verse #4. How The Hell Is This Even Remotely Racist ?
O thus be it ever when freemen shall stand Between their lov'd home and the war's desolation! Blest with vict'ry and peace may the heav'n rescued land Praise the power that hath made and preserv'd us a nation! Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just, And this be our motto - "In God is our trust," And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.
Please Tell Me How This Is Racist.
New's Flash For You There Have Been Slaves In The Would For Thousands Of Year's. So Why Is It That Only The United States Is Being Singled Out As The Great Slaver's Of The World.
I Would Bet That It Would Be Safe To Say That There Where Slaves As Early As The Cave Man.
But Let Me Jump To Moore Resent Time. The Slave Trade The Lead To Slaves In North America Was Started By. The Dutch Slave Traders Selling Slave's To Basically The World.
Now They Did Not Go To Africa And Catch The African People In Order To Make Them Slave's. No It Was Other African Tribes Doing This. Fact's Being What They Are No Matter How Much Black People And Other's Try To Blame To White America. They Should Look At The Truth. Also If America Is So Bad For Black People Tell Me Why Almost All Of The Black People I Know Have Vary Good High Paying Tech Job's. That's Right They Went To School And Learned A Skill, And Did Not Site Around Blaming Other's For Not Making It In The World.
Yes I Must Be A Racist For Pointing All Of This Out.
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Bergman Oswell
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Last time I checked, there was a certain oath that servicemembers swore -- to defend the constitution. I don't recall anywhere in that constitution where it says that active duty means you give up all of your unalienable rights, or even a single one.

How is it defending the constitution, giving it true faith and allegiance, to reject the rights of your fellow citizens to do as it states they have a right to? How can you be anything but a domestic enemy of the constitution if you would punish those who exercise rights it guarantees?
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Vance Frickey
Vance Frickey
9 y
The Uniform Code of Military Justice has several specifications which address conduct of the military, and this Code is imposed on the active duty military as a condition of their oath to obey the orders of the Commander-in-Chief and all others in positions of authority over them.
Ask Gen. Stanley McChrystal about how far those rights go for an active-duty member of the military - an incautious remark in a magazine interview caused him to be processed out of the service. He's not the first flag officer to be relieved of his post for comments which displeased the White House.
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Bergman Oswell
Bergman Oswell
9 y
Vance Frickey - If no one ever violated the law, no one would have ever invented police. Just because it has been done, does not mean it is right.
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Vance Frickey
Vance Frickey
9 y
Bergman Oswell - We have a volunteer military. No one's compelled to serve in it, but once they do agree to serve, that agreement extends to the simple matter of affirming their sworn allegiance to the nation by their posture during the playing of the Anthem and formal ceremonies involving the Flag. It's important, and goes to the issue of "good order and discipline" central to military justice and administration.
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Bergman Oswell
Bergman Oswell
9 y
Vance Frickey - No one is compelled to vote or hold public office either, yet it remains illegal to compel people to speak in ways they disagree with in order to vote or run for office. Even private corporations are often required to respect rights, how can an organization that is part of the government be exempt?

There are many laws that have been enacted despite being unconstitutional, or that remain on the books until challenged despite having been rendered unconstitutional by the ratification of one amendment or another. Just because it has not been successfully challenged yet does not mean it must be constitutional.
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PFC Information Technology Specialist
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Please how many people make a mad dash to their cars or wait that extra 10 minutes before they leave the building we've all seen and probably all done at least once in our career.
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