Posted on Feb 19, 2014
Should Officers be allowed to use first names and have hands in pockets around Enlisted Soldiers?
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Discipline
Military bearing
Customs and Courtesies
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 103
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Sir, do you mean like these officers? I ask because it didn't appear to affect how they did their job; winning wars.<br>
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
Cpl (Join to see) - Got a laugh out of Me on that one, logic and military in the same sentence ?
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SPC Andrew Phillips
I’ll point out that the military was not a 20 or 30 year career for most WW2 SM’s. I think you can make an argument that the military of the 40’s staffed by people who did 3 or 4 years and then went and did other things was more effective. There are many good “career” Soldiers, not saying they suck, but a lot of bureaucracy comes with large numbers of career SM’s. You get the 20 or 30 year garrison, paper pushing “Soldiers” who think them noticing some obscure nonsense regulation serves America somehow.
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Hands in pockets is easy AR 670-1 prohibits it. Make the on the spot correction. First names for suboordinates and equal rank is historicaly acceptable and is still today, however towards SR ranking it is not authorized. Sir or Ma'am is the appropriate response to a SR for the Officer Corps.
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SGT Tony Clifford
CSM, I don't think it would be wise to make an on the spot correction of an officer at field grade or higher. I did one time as a Col. had left his pistol in the dining facility and I handed it to him away from soldiers and I got called in front of my CSM to explain myself. Fortunately my CSM agreed with me, but he still had to smooth things over because the BC was the one who got the call.
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Tactfully…some senior leaders don't take constructive criticism very well. However, if you approach it in a tactful manner, off to the side - not in front of other people, they will react far better than they would if you did it in front of troops. They will either thank you - or ignore you.
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LTC Ken Connolly
Sure, counsel a Commander of the Combined Forces to not have his hands in his pocket. :) What is important is that we do the right thing regardless of others setting a bad example.
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<p>SFC Cox,</p><p>The first names between officers of equal rank (or higher to lower) is an Army tradition from way back. It took me awhile to get used to it when I switched over but I don't think it is an issue when done in front of enlisted. It's just one of those weird things officers do.</p><p>Now the hands in the pockets is a completely different issue. It is difficult to expect basic discipline from your Soldiers when you do not display it yourself. As a senior NCO, this is where you can take the officer aside and diplomatically make the on the spot correction.</p>
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SFC (Join to see)
Sir,
I am fine with the first names and that it is tradition, but it should be saved for an Officer enviroment not in front off the lower enlisted. I dont want my Soldiers going around calling each other by their first name. I am completely with you cant go enforcing standards when you cant demonstrate it yourself.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
Now, since people have been putting their hands in their pockets for hundreds of years prior to the formation of the Army, can we grandfather that in under the "tradition" clause? Cause quite frankly, my hands are never happier than when they're in my pockets, that's a rule that needs to change =)
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LTC Paul Labrador
I use first names of my junior officers (particularly if we have a mentor/mentee relationship), but I try not to do it in front of soldiers.
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The crusty Navy Master Chief noticed a new seaman and barked at him, "Get over here! What's your name sailor?"
"John," the new seaman replied.
"Look, I don't know what kind of bleeding-heart pansy crap they're teaching sailors in boot camp these days, but I don't call anyone by his first name," the chief scowled.
"It breeds familiarity, and that leads to a breakdown in authority. I refer to my sailors by their last names only; Smith, Jones, Baker, whatever.
And you are to refer to me as 'Chief.’ Do I make myself clear?"
"Aye, Aye, Chief!"
"Now that we've got that straight, what's your last name?"
The seaman sighed. "Darling, My name is John Darling, Chief."
"Okay, John, here's what I want you to do ...."
"John," the new seaman replied.
"Look, I don't know what kind of bleeding-heart pansy crap they're teaching sailors in boot camp these days, but I don't call anyone by his first name," the chief scowled.
"It breeds familiarity, and that leads to a breakdown in authority. I refer to my sailors by their last names only; Smith, Jones, Baker, whatever.
And you are to refer to me as 'Chief.’ Do I make myself clear?"
"Aye, Aye, Chief!"
"Now that we've got that straight, what's your last name?"
The seaman sighed. "Darling, My name is John Darling, Chief."
"Okay, John, here's what I want you to do ...."
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PO1 Mike Edgecomb
And you are to refer to me as 'Chief.’ Do I make myself clear?"
"Aye, Aye, Chief!"
"Now that we've got that straight, what's your last name?"
The seaman sighed. "Darling, My name is John Darling, Chief."
"Okay John, here's what I want you to do ...."
"Aye, Aye, Chief!"
"Now that we've got that straight, what's your last name?"
The seaman sighed. "Darling, My name is John Darling, Chief."
"Okay John, here's what I want you to do ...."
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SSgt (Join to see)
While in training on an AFB that hosted joint training, I happened across a Seaman named “Sample” and another named “Stanes.” I’m sure the crusty old Master Chief would’ve preferred to call them by their first names also.
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'Nuff said about the hands in pockets. Frankly, if we aren't allowed to use them, they shouldn't be on the uniform. There are plenty of pockets to put other things in. Regarding names, I tend to call people Mr. or Ms. "Smith," until I get to know them well enough to tell if they are comfortable with a LTC refering to them by their first name. Everyone has their last name on the front of their blouse or the back of their hat. It's impersonal to use last names and is usually frowned upon...people think you don't know your officers.
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LTC (Join to see)
I always took it as a compliment when a senior NCO or officer actually cared enough to know my first name. As for hands in pockets, I agree. why bother having them?
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They should get rid of this policy. But will they? No. My parents always told me to be careful about the battles you chose. The hand in pocket battle is just not that important to waste any leadership currency on.
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This is one of those often violated rules, mainly because the rule itself is stupid. I've seen everyone from my BDE CDR to my BDE CSM (who referred to the practice as his instructor pocket) down to my company commander do it. I ignore it and move on.
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SGT (Join to see)
One of my old 1SGs used to say "a Sapper with cold hands and empty pockets is a stupid Sapper"
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As I work in a command section where I am the only enlisted member, I don't see an issue with officers using first names. I had a discussion with some junior members about superiors using first names and I explained it to them that it makes for a more personal interaction from the ranking individual. I work for a 4 and 3 star general and it speaks volumes that they address me and other members by their first names. I have my rank and last name on all of my uniforms, when a senior ranking individual uses my first name, it adds a personal touch.
As far as the hands in pockets, the Air Force has AFI 36-2903 which clearly states do not stand or walk with hand(s) in pocket(s), except to insert or remove an item.
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LTC (Join to see)
It shows that they actually care enough to know your first name and don't just look at you as another "insert rank here" in a uniform
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