Posted on Sep 18, 2014
Should PFCs stand at "Parade Rest" for a SPC?
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We had Lieutenants saluting each other, now I ask this: Should an E-3 stand at the position of parade rest for an E4 Specialist (not a corporal)?
FM 7-21.13 The Soldiers Guide in Chapter 4 addresses customs and courtesies. It states that Soldiers junior in rank will stand at parade rest when addressing an NCO unless otherwise directed.
I remember when I was a PFC, I had a Specialist who was adamant about all E3s and below standing at parade rest in front of him. Was he right?
What say you RP?
FM 7-21.13 The Soldiers Guide in Chapter 4 addresses customs and courtesies. It states that Soldiers junior in rank will stand at parade rest when addressing an NCO unless otherwise directed.
I remember when I was a PFC, I had a Specialist who was adamant about all E3s and below standing at parade rest in front of him. Was he right?
What say you RP?
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 180
In the MP Corps, while in garrison, we would have specialist that would be in charge of a sector and would have lower ranking that were they would be in charge of. They would stand at parade rest for the specialist for that duty.
I never really cared for it, but the soldiers did it. I was only a specialist for about 4 months before going to Iraq. Once I got there I was promoted to corporal in the first week I was there. The sham days ended there.
I never really cared for it, but the soldiers did it. I was only a specialist for about 4 months before going to Iraq. Once I got there I was promoted to corporal in the first week I was there. The sham days ended there.
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As a tanker, it's common for a Specialist to be a gunner. On a tank, at least in my regiment, the gunner was a position of authority. I don't think I ever stood at parade rest for specialist who was also a gunner but I was required to listen to his commands (within reason of course) and show him proper respect. I think that would be enough.
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Seeing as how it's possible to enter the Army as a SPC, and seeing as how a SPC is NOT an NCO (whereas a CPL is), God forbid if me or one of my NCOs caught a SPC making privates stand at parade rest.
My SPCs exist to to a few things here: assist the NCOs in training (through the delegation of authority from the NCO), to become and remain fully proficient in their MOS, and to begin learning and exhibiting the leadership skills necessary for advancement.
Notice I said learning and exhibiting, not demanding the benefit that accompanies, the leadership skills. If High-Speed Command Master SPC can't properly handle the limited authority that his/her grade carries, what makes me, or any other member of the CoC or NCO support channel believe that he/she will carry him/herself in any manner becoming of an NCO after hitting the board?
My SPCs exist to to a few things here: assist the NCOs in training (through the delegation of authority from the NCO), to become and remain fully proficient in their MOS, and to begin learning and exhibiting the leadership skills necessary for advancement.
Notice I said learning and exhibiting, not demanding the benefit that accompanies, the leadership skills. If High-Speed Command Master SPC can't properly handle the limited authority that his/her grade carries, what makes me, or any other member of the CoC or NCO support channel believe that he/she will carry him/herself in any manner becoming of an NCO after hitting the board?
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I had this issue as a SPC, had a PV2 who thought he knew everything and my NCO put me in charge of him and another soldier in my section, no problem, the problem comes when the NCO gives you the position, but not the authority to back your position. as a specialist my NCO expected me to inspect rooms and walk through the barracks on weekends, if my NCO had any intent on sending me to the promotion board at the time, I wouldnt have thought much of it, but here I am a SPC with 18 months TIS. I performed my duties without question, but when I found a deficiency and tried to make a correction I got the "you're just a specialist" line time and time again. My NCO would not back me up on the issue and when it came time for barracks inspection it all fell back on me. what I am trying to say is that ranks are there for a reason, and though parade rest is extreme NCO's need to stand behind the rank system and back their "senior" lower enlisted guys.
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I realize the Corps is a little different (why is it I say that a lot on RP?).
And, Yes, I am aware of the Specialist /Corporal divide in the Army.
But having been an E-4 I would have thought it a little ridiculous to call an individual E-3 to attention or expect them to pop to just because I was talking to them.
Now, I did expect to have their attention but the POA just for a conversation, seems crazy to me.
But, if there were some kind of infraction, especially one challenging the authority of the Rank might change the situation a little as one needs to do the correction and ensure they know they are being corrected and the issue is a little bit serious. Or if we were preparing to Drill....
But E-3's popping to because an E-4 walks in the room? I am somewhat incredulous at the question.
Frankly, even as an E-7 I put people at Parade Rest if I needed to, the rest of the time I expected them to be doing what they needed to as long as they could pay attention to me If I addressed them. I am a big believer in the "Rest" Command, unless folks just won't listen up moving up to "At Ease" if they are intent on having private comments while I'm talking, then we can tighten it up a little. And the great thing is, I still have another position of rest "Parade Rest" to work with before I have to go full on "Attention" and lock folks up. :)
In my own personal view of exercising authority - I always thought that you should exercise as little authority as you needed to do the job, then, when push comes to shove and you throw your weight around, the Troops know there's a problem and they need to tighten their own stuff up and crush whatever the situation is. But opinions vary.
And, Yes, I am aware of the Specialist /Corporal divide in the Army.
But having been an E-4 I would have thought it a little ridiculous to call an individual E-3 to attention or expect them to pop to just because I was talking to them.
Now, I did expect to have their attention but the POA just for a conversation, seems crazy to me.
But, if there were some kind of infraction, especially one challenging the authority of the Rank might change the situation a little as one needs to do the correction and ensure they know they are being corrected and the issue is a little bit serious. Or if we were preparing to Drill....
But E-3's popping to because an E-4 walks in the room? I am somewhat incredulous at the question.
Frankly, even as an E-7 I put people at Parade Rest if I needed to, the rest of the time I expected them to be doing what they needed to as long as they could pay attention to me If I addressed them. I am a big believer in the "Rest" Command, unless folks just won't listen up moving up to "At Ease" if they are intent on having private comments while I'm talking, then we can tighten it up a little. And the great thing is, I still have another position of rest "Parade Rest" to work with before I have to go full on "Attention" and lock folks up. :)
In my own personal view of exercising authority - I always thought that you should exercise as little authority as you needed to do the job, then, when push comes to shove and you throw your weight around, the Troops know there's a problem and they need to tighten their own stuff up and crush whatever the situation is. But opinions vary.
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If that SPC/E4 is in a leadership position such as a TML, by all means, that PVT - PFC needs to be in parade rest. This is also good also if the SPC is on a promotion path to SGT.
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I remember when I was told to do it when I was a SPC...but the bottom line we got more done back then due to the fact that we had respect and listen to who ever out rank you and was putting out the information. Recently it seem as if Soldiers dont listen to anyone not in the chain of Command.
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Well back in 1984, we were required to stand at parade rest for all Tabbed E-4 or newly Tabbed E-3, if you did not all hell would rain upon you. If the E-4 was not Tabbed then I feel lower enlisted personnel should not stand at parade rest for the E-4, they are just a regular JOE.
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What is even more ridiculous than this, is when you have two specialists whining about who is 'more senior'. You know what is really, really ridiculous? When they put a junior enlisted Soldier in a leadership position and that individual decides that they no longer need to do any work. I chew my fellow junior enlisted Soldiers asses for this almost daily. I work just as hard as I require my Soldiers to work, heck, I am probably to easy on them....but that is my style.
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