Posted on Sep 18, 2014
Should PFCs stand at "Parade Rest" for a SPC?
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We had Lieutenants saluting each other, now I ask this: Should an E-3 stand at the position of parade rest for an E4 Specialist (not a corporal)?
FM 7-21.13 The Soldiers Guide in Chapter 4 addresses customs and courtesies. It states that Soldiers junior in rank will stand at parade rest when addressing an NCO unless otherwise directed.
I remember when I was a PFC, I had a Specialist who was adamant about all E3s and below standing at parade rest in front of him. Was he right?
What say you RP?
FM 7-21.13 The Soldiers Guide in Chapter 4 addresses customs and courtesies. It states that Soldiers junior in rank will stand at parade rest when addressing an NCO unless otherwise directed.
I remember when I was a PFC, I had a Specialist who was adamant about all E3s and below standing at parade rest in front of him. Was he right?
What say you RP?
Posted in these groups: 
Customs and Courtesies
NCOs
Customs and Courtesies NCOs
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 180
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If you re read FM 7-21.13 the answer is right there. A SPC is not a junior NCO. A CPL is a jr NCO. If you encounter this again state the FM and if you receive any lip take that high speed SPC to a real NCO. I am sure they would love to educate that PV4, oops I mean SPC.
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SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA
Should this even be a question? No. Is it okay to assume common sense instead? Sure.
;-)
;-)
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I would never in my life ever make anyone stand at parade rest for me. It's a waste of time and not professional.
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The only time I have heard of troops going to parade rest for a full bird private is in Ranger Bat. Their club their rules. I do not know this to be fact but i have heard that it is true.
For the rest of us not part of the special kids club, I would say no. That being said the E-4 mafia is very good at brow beating E-1 through E-3's in to doing the right thing. If the Platoon Sgt fires off a heat round the E-4 may be in the impact area. This could ruffle the feathers on the shame shield bird and that will never do. So if you have a strong E-4 that can fix "issues" look the other way, peer pressure is a powerful tool.
For the rest of us not part of the special kids club, I would say no. That being said the E-4 mafia is very good at brow beating E-1 through E-3's in to doing the right thing. If the Platoon Sgt fires off a heat round the E-4 may be in the impact area. This could ruffle the feathers on the shame shield bird and that will never do. So if you have a strong E-4 that can fix "issues" look the other way, peer pressure is a powerful tool.
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Lets get back to basics.
FM 7-21.13,4-16 states: when speaking to or being addressed a noncommissioned officer of superior rank, stand at parade rest until ordered otherwise.
It is not difficult, this is an FM and a commander can instill discipline in his/her organization by establishing a standard to have Soldiers stand at parade rest for those senior in rank. Granted you will not see this much in today's Army. Specialist that are in leadership positions and laterally promoted to CPL shall be respected by those junior according to the FM.
According to the FM a PFC is not required to stand at parade rest for a specialist, but there is not a regulation that states any different.
FM 7-21.13,4-16 states: when speaking to or being addressed a noncommissioned officer of superior rank, stand at parade rest until ordered otherwise.
It is not difficult, this is an FM and a commander can instill discipline in his/her organization by establishing a standard to have Soldiers stand at parade rest for those senior in rank. Granted you will not see this much in today's Army. Specialist that are in leadership positions and laterally promoted to CPL shall be respected by those junior according to the FM.
According to the FM a PFC is not required to stand at parade rest for a specialist, but there is not a regulation that states any different.
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I guess it depends on what grade a NCO starts at in your service. I guess each service may have their own rules on this. I don't think I've ever seen a 3rd Class put anyone at parade rest, although I believe they have every right to under the UCMJ. We're NCOs at E-4 (3rd Class Petty Officer) We usually see more 2nd Classes do that, this is the equivalent to Sergent; so maybe if Sergents usually stand subordinates at parade rest, maybe we're on the same page on this. We don't even see much of that at all anymore, though. It's like we have to be careful to not make people feel singled out and we have to make sure that no one can make a EO issue out of things. It all comes down to us becoming a more PC, more kinder and gentler military. When I came in, you would still hear people getting hemmed up getting yelled from the top from the top of the Petty Officer's lungs, veins bulging out of the forehead and all. They would put the fear of God in them.
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Cpl Brian Yanez
I found that odd, when I first heard you sailors don't speak in parade rest. Then from there I realized just how different our branches are, when it comes to basics like that. For us once you hit E-4 the Marine Corps says you are a leader and your Marines when being addressed by you will stand at parade rest, I had it where me and a troop were having a one on one talk and a fellow Sgt came by and told the Marine to get at parade rest for me. I told the Sgt behind closed doors the scenario and apologized but that is how big E-4 is for us. E-3 in many cases also has a large amount of authority and can also hold formation where troops stand at parade rest in certain scenarios.
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PO2 David Hagwood
PO1 John Miller The way I see it, if it's going to be a one-way conversion, they should be at parade rest. I have been asked to post an entire work center at parade rest to prepare them for an as chewing. If a repose is required, they pop to attention to speak, then return to parade rest.
Cpl Brian Yanez I just thought I would tag you in case you're curious about this practice.
Cpl Brian Yanez I just thought I would tag you in case you're curious about this practice.
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PO2 David Hagwood
SSG (Join to see) What happens is that if there is an internet connection just long enough, all it needs is to flag the game for an update and that's it. Some of us don't always have internet access long enough or fast enough to deal with that. If a PS4 game is flagged for an update, it only locks the network access features in the game; but it won't lock the game down. To me, that's nothing.
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PO1 John Miller
PO2 David Hagwood , good point. If I was chewing some ass where a response wasn't "needed", the position of parade rest would be justified.
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The way I look at it is like this:
The FM is MANDATING enlisted personnel to stand at PR when addressing an NCO.
And AR 600-20 tells us that a rank structure is vital for the proper order and discipline of the force.
The FM also tells us that a soldier will be respectful, by being courteous and polite. The same FM tells us that a PVT should be the first to enter a vehicle and then a PFC (for instance), and vice versa when exiting the vehicle? Why?, because the magic words "ranking soldier" were used.
So, with those out of the way, I would venture that a PVT or PFC CAN stand at PR when addressing a SPC. Hell, a PVT CAN stand at PR when addressing a PV2.
It is customs and courtesies, FM tells us we HAVE to do it for NCOs. Junior enlisted do not HAVE to do it amongst each other.
Doesn't mean they shouldn't though.
After all, last I checked a PV2 still outranks a PVT.
I would encourage soldiers to do it, but I wouldn't punish them if they don't either.
The FM is MANDATING enlisted personnel to stand at PR when addressing an NCO.
And AR 600-20 tells us that a rank structure is vital for the proper order and discipline of the force.
The FM also tells us that a soldier will be respectful, by being courteous and polite. The same FM tells us that a PVT should be the first to enter a vehicle and then a PFC (for instance), and vice versa when exiting the vehicle? Why?, because the magic words "ranking soldier" were used.
So, with those out of the way, I would venture that a PVT or PFC CAN stand at PR when addressing a SPC. Hell, a PVT CAN stand at PR when addressing a PV2.
It is customs and courtesies, FM tells us we HAVE to do it for NCOs. Junior enlisted do not HAVE to do it amongst each other.
Doesn't mean they shouldn't though.
After all, last I checked a PV2 still outranks a PVT.
I would encourage soldiers to do it, but I wouldn't punish them if they don't either.
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SFC (Join to see)
SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA this was a very succinct response. You could have added that units can always add to but never take away and it would sufficiently kill this thread.
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SFC (Join to see)
I personally would appreciate the gesture of respect but certainly wouldn't demand it. Are SPC's even considered JNCO's? I didn't think so. Wasn't the whole purpose of the SPC for soldiers that had unique skills that did NOT want to be leaders? Hmmm.
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Well after reading most of the posts on this i would say the members of its army has made its own regulation and i belive that is wrong and unprofessional.
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Back in the old, old days, a PFC was hot $hit, he carried a lot of weight. I guess it was changing during Vietnam where a PFC was no different than a Spec 4 except in pay.
Spec 4s don't need to get power hungry until they make Sgt.
Spec 4s don't need to get power hungry until they make Sgt.
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