Posted on Jan 10, 2016
Should SM be counseled for incorrect PT uniform? SM does not have jacket and pants for Monday due to circumstances.
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SM wife takes PTs for Drill weekend and leaves PTs at Facility. By the time they realize the Facility and Clothing Sales is closed until Tuesday. Uniform put out is full winters at indoor gym. No one in SM section has extra PTs for SM to borrow. Should SM be counseled?
Clarification. SM is Active Duty. SM wife is NG.
Clothing and Sales is closed Monday. NG Facility is closed Monday.
Clarification. SM is Active Duty. SM wife is NG.
Clothing and Sales is closed Monday. NG Facility is closed Monday.
Counseling
Uniforms
What Would You Do
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 28
I realize this is really NCO matters, but a written counseling for something like this sounds excessive. The SM was not negligent by forgetting his PTs in some alley and just showed up unprepared. SM is making every effort to notify the chain of command and remedy the situation in advance. If this is the first time it's happened, a verbal counseling seems more appropriate... but I would support an NCO if he chose to counsel as well, as long as he maintained that standard for everyone (including most importantly himself).
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SPC (Join to see)
Thank you MAJ Weiss for your response. I do appreciate the insight from an officers perspective with these matters too!
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The SM should have known better and packed his own gear, but accidents do happen. So if this is a one time occurrence then I would say NO!
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SPC (Join to see)
Thank you for your response CSM McKeown. Just for clarification SM allowed his wife to use his PTs for Drill. The wife left them at the facility and now SM does not have a jacket and pants for Monday. This is a one time occurrence.
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CSM Chris McKeown
So SM learned not to let his wife use his uniform. Now I have this picture in my head, wife fits in his uniform.... ummm, I better shut up before I stick my foot in my mouth.
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SPC (Join to see) it all depends on the situation, a verbal warning, then counseling (-18) magic statement is warranted. After all it is the military and must conform within regulation. The standard must be upheld with in AR- 670-1 standards.
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1SG (Join to see)
SPC (Join to see) - Screw up that again and I might take away stripes and/ or throw you out of the Army.
I don't think this rises to that level, but there would be some pretty pointed questions coming out of this First Sergeant if I got this explanation. It just doesn't add up.
Counseling Statement.
Don't do it again.
Move out and draw fire.
I don't think this rises to that level, but there would be some pretty pointed questions coming out of this First Sergeant if I got this explanation. It just doesn't add up.
Counseling Statement.
Don't do it again.
Move out and draw fire.
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SSG Warren Swan
SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL - First time I've ever heard someone not knowing the "magic bullet" in counseling......or maybe I've been on the receiving end of them too much?
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SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL
SSG Warren Swan yea, it surprised me also. I know Igot my fair share.
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Yes, they should be counseled. They are not in the correct uniform, and the excuse given is the equivalent of the "dog ate my homework".
Bull$#!t.
As if the Missus was not issued an APFU.
I smell B.S.
Bull$#!t.
As if the Missus was not issued an APFU.
I smell B.S.
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SSG Keith Cashion
1SG (Join to see) - I agree with you, but then it goes back to what I said, The NG Spouse didn't do the pre-check PMCS before departing for Drill, or the Post-PMCS when she got home from the previous drill where at that time it would have been noticed that said uniform was missing.
I guess this is why the Army issues each Soldier their own uniforms. But then again, why make sure that you have everything you need to be successful. As to showing up 10 minutes early....yeah that may take sometime from playing with the hand held electronic device that is attached. Hope something was learned from this.
I guess this is why the Army issues each Soldier their own uniforms. But then again, why make sure that you have everything you need to be successful. As to showing up 10 minutes early....yeah that may take sometime from playing with the hand held electronic device that is attached. Hope something was learned from this.
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SFC (Join to see)
1SG (Join to see) 1SG. Can't up vote you enough. No excuse whatsoever for what happen with the young Soldier here.
And just a FYI for all. I'm a AGR Readiness NCO and have had to go into Armory at some "odd" hours for numerous reasons for Soldiers. So no excuse will suffice as far as I'm concerned.
But funny side here. We are getting ready for a MAJOR inspection and I did find out I have a termite issue in one of my offices. Termites got into file cabinet and destroyed over 3/4 of the units Drivers folders for unit. Can I use that as a reason they are not there during inspection? Lol
And just a FYI for all. I'm a AGR Readiness NCO and have had to go into Armory at some "odd" hours for numerous reasons for Soldiers. So no excuse will suffice as far as I'm concerned.
But funny side here. We are getting ready for a MAJOR inspection and I did find out I have a termite issue in one of my offices. Termites got into file cabinet and destroyed over 3/4 of the units Drivers folders for unit. Can I use that as a reason they are not there during inspection? Lol
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1SG (Join to see)
SFC (Join to see) - The termites ate your paperwork?!
Go ahead and try it. Make sure you videotape the response.
Go ahead and try it. Make sure you videotape the response.
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SFC (Join to see)
1SG (Join to see) Oh yeah they got into all the files.
Uh no not going to run with that. Been rebuilding packets all weekend.
Uh no not going to run with that. Been rebuilding packets all weekend.
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Yes.....a counseling never killed anyone and this is the E4's issue to solve (hint....additional set of PT gear).
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Is this a "one time" event or frequent occurrence? If it's a once-in-a-blue-moon-doesn't-happen-often event, then I say pull the SM aside and stress the importance of both members having proper uniform items. If the infraction occurs on a regular basis, more aggressive measures may be needed.
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LTC Paul Labrador
Good answer. Each SM is supposed to have their own clothing bag. I get that they may be trying to save money by sharing certain items.....but situations like this are bound to occur with that set up....
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This isn't a written counseling situation. Have him wear what he has, impress upon him the importance of having the correct uniform and carry on. If it becomes a continuing problem then put it on paper.
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I am assuming you are the Soldier and you got the counseling. Bottom line is don't have a uniform issue in the future and this counseling only serves as a good reminder. In which case the purpose of the counseling was met.
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SPC (Join to see)
If it's a first time occurrence and the service member is normally squared away (doesn't have negative counseling for other infractions) I personally would issue a verbal counseling (in fact I have done just that for exactly the same infraction).
If it's a first time occurrence and the service member is normally squared away (doesn't have negative counseling for other infractions) I personally would issue a verbal counseling (in fact I have done just that for exactly the same infraction).
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