Posted on Nov 14, 2017
COL Strategic Plans Chief
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I'm surprised this hasn't been on RallyPoint. During the increased requirements for the War on Terror, Iraq and Afghanistan, the U.S. Army increased its requirements for recruiting and saw a change in the waivers granted to some recruits. Some say this led to discipline problems throughout the force and some of the war crimes committed by those who were more likely to be mentally unstable in war. Should the Army (and the military in general) maintain a strict set of entrance requirements that cannot be waivered? With the debate about those with mental health issues and gun violence on the front burner...is this the type of recruit we are looking for? ***Look at SSG Aaron Case's rebuttal to this argument below. He sheds some light on the article and talks about the Army's response.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/11/12/army-lifts-ban-recruits-history-self-mutilation-other-mental-health-issues/853131001/
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CAPT Kevin B.
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Accession standards have changed all the time. The true standard is to obtain a certain number of trained body count. Need a lot of them in a major war; not so many when nothing is going on. If you bring in people with "issues", then you need to overshoot the mark because attrition will be greater. The top brass haven't figured out a better way than to push the problem down to the junior NCO/Officer's back. Yes we bitch about it, but those who bitch the loudest have the least to contribute to a solution other than "Somebody ought to do something." It's the nature of the beast. One thing would be to put emphasis on identifying the "nonworkables" earlier. Save time and money and move on. The last thing we need is more overhead expense taking away from actual warfighting. Bottom line, it's a body count vs. money vs. time quandary. Looking at the recent Army changes, it depends where the druggies and cutters are on the spectrum and have their frontal lobes finally activated. I've been around a number of them. The sweet spot for bringing them in is when they finally GET IT. You'll still have failures, just not as many. BTW for a number of jobs, psych screening is required, hence the full gamut of MOS's won't be available.
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COL Strategic Plans Chief
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CAPT Kevin B., I agree and think we should have some "red-lines" that we don't cross. There are certain things we still don't let people in with. There are certain jobs that should be made available and others that should not. Recovery is a life long process and it's always a fight. We have plenty of recovering addicts, people who suffer from PTS and a myriad of other mental illnesses. We have to set a line that is focused on readiness. If you become a readiness drag, we need to get people out of the military faster and loosen some methods to expedite that process.
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SGT Dave Tracy
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Depends on how badly the military needs people; and its always fluctuated. I wouldn't have been allowed entry into the Army if today's standards were in place then (too old). In World War 2, their standards had to be seriously relaxed out of real desperation. Quoting a Navy vet interviewed in a St. Paul Pioneer Press article from Veterans Day, after being turned away after trying to enlist following Pearl Harbor due to high blood pressure, he tried again and “That time, they said, ‘If you’re breathing, you’re in!’ ”.

Not sure if it should ever be "anything goes", but desperate times do call for desperate measures. I hate to think about just how bad the situation must be to take in nearly anybody, and we damn sure ain't anywhere close to that today, thankfully. The military should set the highest bar as (reasonably) possible under normal circumstances, especially when the need for SMs isn't as great. The benefit would be during periods when the needs of the military aren't as great, the quality of what you have in your ranks will be very high--useful anytime, but necessary for training, leadership and mentoring of new SMs when the quality bar for entry will need to be set lower.
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COL Strategic Plans Chief
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SGT Dave Tracy, things will fluctuate, but we need to keep some standards that effect readiness. I like your comment about the military setting the highest bar possible given the circumstances. I think that's what it comes down to. We need quantity to accomplish the missions assigned to us. That means we can either increase the size of the pool of qualified applicants at the current standard (requiring the nation to make significant investments in education and social programs) or we lower the standards to get the number of people we need.
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SPC Adam Hamann
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Everyone male and female should be held to the same standard no ands ifs or buts it's bullshit that it does not work that way
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SSgt Julius Bob Midgett
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Back in the day I enlisted you had to have a certain score on the asvab and they allowed persons who had not graduated high school I was one of those who was
Not a hs grad after boot camp my CO called me in and ordered me to attend night classes and graduate which I did my next CO required me to continue my education and I thrived in the Corps so I say ruling out a person because of lack of education is wrong if they have the desire to serve and have high enough scores on the asvab let them enlist
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PO3 William Carrien
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None of the service branches should.
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PFC Elijah Rose
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There are two underlying assuptions here that are wrong. First that there can be some sort of standard when piority should be winning wars and saving money. Second is that volunteer recruitment is the best way to fill the ranks.
I would insist we adopt Switzerland/South Korea's system of a massed conscript reservist force. The firmly ties the interests of the military to the interests of the nation and creates high levels of camraderie at low cost.
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COL Strategic Plans Chief
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PFC Elijah Rose, if there were a national emergency, then I'd agree with you about conscription or the draft. I don't think that the US would stomach mandatory service. The average American "supports the troops," but has no intention of putting themselves in harm's way to be a true citizen and not just a passenger on the liberty bus.
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PO1 Kevin Dougherty
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Do we really want people with serious mental health issues in any of our services? Minor problems OK, kids in trouble but otherwise healthy, OK ... heck some of our people in all the services have come from troubled backgrounds. Violent, abusive or psychotic behavior, and your gonna train them to kill people? Really? Who does that make sense to?
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COL Strategic Plans Chief
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PO1 Kevin Dougherty, I'm confident that violent offenders wouldn't make it through the waiver process. I would hope that a recruiter wouldn't even entertain the prospect, but if they did then it's up to the system to catch the problem. That can have holes in it, but I think we would be better than most. That being said, the truly deranged are really good at hiding it. Those people wouldn't have a record anyhow.
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CSM Charles Hayden
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COL (Join to see) Real world scenario; put your best foot forward! The military operates with ‘bodies’.

Being able to make the best use of available resources is a commanders best asset!

Regretfully, when all is said and done; those same resources become excess to the force!
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COL Strategic Plans Chief
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That's always the case, CSM Charles Hayden. The Army grows and shrinks. When it shrinks...sometimes we get it right...sometimes we haven't done as good a job as we could have. Hopefully we will learn from the past.
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SFC Caretaker
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War is war, if it becomes full blown they will activate the draft! If that happens there are no standards! Just able bodies.
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CSM Charles Hayden
CSM Charles Hayden
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Do you really believe today’s fragmented America could accept a DRAFT? SFC (Join to see)
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COL Strategic Plans Chief
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I think the draft could work, but it would take a level of war not seen since WWII and we would have to have a whole hell of a lot of righteous indignation behind us. American's would have to feel attacked and angered to be willing to go back to the draft.
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MSG Instructor
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Should never change standards FOR ANYONE. Regardless of retention issues. That’s why we have the bunch of retards running the joint now.
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COL Strategic Plans Chief
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MSG (Join to see), pretty sure the "retards running the show," weren't let in on lower standards. They are products of a low point in accessions...so they should be from a higher qualified pool of candidates. Those in charge survived one of the largest draw downs in modern history after Desert Storm. The standards for retention then were pretty high.
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