Posted on Mar 24, 2014
Should the Army continue regarding NCOs as Sergeant or by their actual rank title?
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The question is whether anyone has an opinion if the Army should continue regarding its NCOs as Sergeants or by their actual rank title. Army NCOs, from the time that they pin on E5/SGT are referred to as Sergeants. This continues until the NCO reaches E8/1SG as there are a few Army MSGs that I have seen referred to as "sergeant" and they were not offended. The other services (Navy, USMC, USAF) refer to each of their ranks by their actual rank title; the USMC E6/Staff Sergeant is referred to as a Staff Sergeant while a E6/Tech Sergeant in the Air Force is referred to as a Tech Sergeant. The Navy uses rates such as Master at Arms (MA) 1,2 or 3 to signify rate and rank but still, its not just MA. As I am not offended by being referred to as a Sergeant by others as a SFC, mostly out of years of repitition, does anyone think that the Army should enforce rank references that reflect the actual rank title (eg. Sergeant or Staff Sergeant for an E6 and so on)?
Although I do realize that when an Army NCO is in a ceremony or similar formation, they are referred to by their actual rank however; when a Soldier, another NCO etc. needs to speak with Staff Sergeant Doe, John/Jane, they are acknowledged only as Sergeant. What do you think?....
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Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 35
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Leave it be, we are the Army, we do not need to change how we conduct business merely because the other branches of service do it a different way. I only met a few NCOs over the course of my career that were, let's say so full of themselves, that wanted lower ranking NCOs/Soldiers to refer to them by their full rank title. As I was subordinate in rank to them I complied just so that I didn't have to spend any more time with/around them than required; usually they were oxygen thieves and I would leave their presence a lot more light headed than when I arrived!
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SFC (Join to see)
I actually agree but because, for my first time, I am deployed to a joint environment with all of the services (but not my first deployment), I had a chance to see and interact with the other services in one location and wondered if anyone ever considered the question. Thanks
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In the USMC, you all know it would be like spitting in a gunny's face to call him sgt. but I tell you the WORST is when you see some old angry looking Marine walking your way with dark green digi's on and so much black chevron on his collar that you can't tell what the hell his rank is. most of the time you could get away with a motivated oohrah, but I have pulled out the "good morning gunnerymasterfirstsgtmajor sir" that usually covers all the bases.
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Sgt John Anderson
surprisingly, calling someone "Marine" is almost a derogatory statement while you are in. it's kind of like when a parent uses their child's first, middle, and last name when they get in trouble. the last thing you want to hear is "Hey there Marine!"
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LCpl Jr. Berdon
i look at it like this you worked hard to obtain your rank and you deserve the respect that comes with whatever rank you obtained like you said about the Marines calling a Gunny just sergeant my company gunny would rip the poor soul a new asshole he served in Vietnam ( yes he admitted to me he did something wrong got disciplined and was a carrier gunny for it ) but every morning while i was his police sergeant it was Good Morning Gunny and when the company commander came in it was good morning Sir and fill them in on my monkeys ( i called them my monkeys being they were trying to get out of the marines or had done something and was being administratively separated ) pt we did in the morning maybe a 3 mile run then go to the gym play basketball( the company gunny was due for knee replacement surgury so to keep him in to finish his 20 years i took the monkeys out for pt to give the gunny a break on his knees i seen him cry during physical fitness tests to finish within the time allowed but he did it )then cut for showers and chow get my morning orders hand out my work orders to my monkeys then go to my desk and start filling out work orders for things i could do to repair the barracks but was told to let the public works to do it and they took months to replace burnt out light bulbs when our bulbs burnt somehow the navys barracks had lights go out all the time and somehow our lights would work again lol but you earned the rank so you should be addressed by your proper rank the marines used to tell your first name is your rank and your last name was your last name
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I agree and paractice this myself. I got chewed out by a Gunnery Sergeant (E7) when I was a SPC. A much more proffessional Marine SSG explained to me thier coutesies and why. Basically as you go up in rank, you have more time, more experience , and more rsponsibility. Think about it, as an SFC you are considered a SENIOR NCO, but to just be referred to as "SGT", its like being demoted. A SGT/E5 generally has 5 yrs TIS, a SSG/E-6 has 6-10, andan SFC/E-7 has at least 11-15yrs TIS. So after tha Gunny incident, I refer to everyone by thier Rank, do I shorten it, sure I address my Master Sergeant by just that or 'MSG" for short. I told my platoon to adress me as no less than 'SFC". This just might instill some more respect and discipline into these Soldiers.
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SSG Douglas Espinosa
I understand that the USMC and other branches do it that way, however by US Army Customs and Courtesies we are still addressed as Sergeant until we either make 1SG or SGM/CSM
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SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS
1SG (Join to see) SSG Douglas Espinosa While I know AR 600-20 directs all NCOs of E-5 through E-8 grade to be referred to as SGT, I remember the old Marine in me being quite envious of GySgt's being called "Gunny" or Gunnery Sergeant. Also, a US Navy Chief Petty Officer is referred to as Chief not Petty Officer. Yes, history has made us what we are and I also abided by regulation as a Soldier, NCO, and SNCO, but recognition by subordinates and superiors alike of not only the time in service, but life experience of a Senior NCO is not a bad thing. Sergeant First Class is a lot to muster out, but perhaps it is time in our shrinking NCO corps to revisit this issue and look for a way to suggest change to AR 600-20 and this policy. The honor and responsibility of NCOs should be recognized, perhaps this is one small way.
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Not necessary...why ? because it creates more blah to communicate one to another. There is no need to re invent the wheel.
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I was in charge of my BN's vehicles and personnel at railhead at NTC; we worked with a group of Marine Logistics guys who called everyone by their rank. It took a little getting used to, being addressed as "Staff Sergeant" instead of the Army standard of "Sergeant".
I personally think that people have earned their rank (be it Private or First Sergeant), and addressing them by their rank wouldn't hurt anyone. I also realize that the Army has way more important things to fix than simple stuff like this.
I personally think that people have earned their rank (be it Private or First Sergeant), and addressing them by their rank wouldn't hurt anyone. I also realize that the Army has way more important things to fix than simple stuff like this.
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Anyone above the rank of SGT E-5 has earned the distinction of that rank and as such should be addressed by their rank. They are entitled to the respect earned for their rank. Yes they should be addressed by their proper rank.
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Sgt John Anderson
Our PFC's (E2's) would stand at parade rest for LCPL's (E3's) in the USMC Infantry. And if a PFC did not use a LCPL's rank when speaking to him, PFC had a bad day.
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SGT (Join to see)
sadly those days are gone from the army, as we move to become kinder and gentler. No longer can I take PVT Snuffy to the PT quad and make the lesson physical, I can only realistically put it in a DA 4856 Counseling.
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SPC Charles Brown
I miss the days of corrective training in the "pit". Despite the sometimes (re: often) abuse of power, there was a lot of learning to be had at the hands of the trainer.
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SGT (Join to see)
I've found it seems to be the infantry that holds to rank like that. I can always tell when a PVT/PFC is 11 series when I hear something like "good morning, Specialist".
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As a senior NCO I never took offence to being called "Sergeant"... after all, that is the PROPER address to be used for an Army NCO (with the exception of First Sergeant or Sergeant Major). Having said that, however, the services are becoming more "Purple" with increased joint activities and where exposure to members of other services in an official capacity USED to be the exception for most enlisted personnel, this is no longer the case and is pretty much becoming the norm (not a bad thing at all) it may be time for all the branches to look at the issue and have a standard policy DOD wide. In short, I would say unless the DOD wants to create a standard across the services, just leave it alone.
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I never liked it when people would call anyone between E5-E8 (Minus the star) by their rank. My biggest pet peeve is when people call a MSG, Master Sergeant. More and more Soldiers are doing this and it bugs the hell out of me! I learned what to call an E-8 in Basic Training and that was 17 years ago! If I can still remember that, why don't the newer Troops? Seriously, it's annoying! Ok, rant complete.
Leave it the way it is. Each branch has their traditions when it comes to rank identification and means of address. I see no reason to change.
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SFC Craig Dalen
There is no reason to change the current standard. If there are NCO's who feel that they should be addressed by their rank need to find something of worth to do. It is part of tradition and is all that needs to be done.
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
I called a MSG sergeant once he then gave me a lecture while I was doing pushups.
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CW2 Jonathan Kantor
If it were me, I would send him an email with a quote from the regulation, saying he was wrong. Respectfully, of course. If he comes down on you after that, I would go up the chain and address it with a senior NCO. People that do that are setting the wrong example and have no place in uniform.
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When I was in the Army I always referred to fellow service men and women by their rank not just sergeant because I felt that it was only right because that was their title and they earned it. I was a E-5 sergeant all higher ranks in NCO's I called by Rank E-6 Staff sergeant ETC.
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I know my rank....I don't need it spelled out for me in every conversation. It actually irks me to hear the whole thing.
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