Posted on May 17, 2016
CW2 C2 Systems Integrator
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What are the implications of not being able to wear a Pro-Mask while having a beard?

Should Soldiers with dietary needs based on religion receive more BAS to pay for additional food costs?
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SPC(P) Mike Conley Jr.
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This is a tough one. Though I feel that a beard should be authorized, obviously still have some kind of standard though, like most people have said this is a volunteer force. There is a standard that has to be met. A standard that should be known ahead of time.
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CPT Earl George
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In Germany in the early 70's, almost all African -American soldiers in my platoon had shaving profiles.
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SPC Craig Miller
SPC Craig Miller
9 y
Are African Americans a religion?
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CPT Earl George
CPT Earl George
9 y
no. But the fact remained that if you were African-American back then, You could easily get a shaving profile. The other platoon members always complained about the African- American soldiers in the platoon not having to shave.
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Sgt Infantryman
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no way! You knew the rules when you joined. What's the point in having any standards? Or are they just for white, straight, christian males?
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Col Rebecca Lorraine
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Capt Singh is a hero and maverick. He has more courage than many I see posting in this line. Our military should be a microcosm of the nation it serves with a diverse portion of every race, gender, religion, etc....Ethnocentrism and egocentrism is pervasive in most of the responses. Congrats to SPC Rebecca Ramos for wading into this one so valiantly.

I have mixed feelings, because I get the uniform ideal and not standing out. "Armies do not march in step for exercise." (Beyers 1977:137)

Change creates friction, even when the change is productive and an evolution of the species. From the Trump and Bernie people it is all about the change and the outsider, yet we remain closed minded. Dealing with change is a part of dealing with every part of life. That includes the uniformity of our military appearance. I'm okay with women wearing their hijab, since I had to wear the darn thing in Saudi Arabia.

His appeal was individually addressed. Each change should be handled the same way and Chaplins and Commanders lead the way on ensuring the "team" understands that it is an HONORABLE accommodation. Our military is voluntary and should welcome all those who meet standards.
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SPC Craig Miller
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Wow if I had only known, being Catholic I would have asked for Sundays off. Keep holy the Sabbath and what not.
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Cpl Justin Goolsby
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No. The simple answer is we are an all volunteer military. No one has currently been drafted into military service. It's like when a pacifist enlists and then complains when they have to go to the front lines. No one is asking for your service. We all have to make some form of sacrifice when we join. Some of it is family, friends, personal lifestyle, even the food we eat. There is no justification for making personal exemptions in an all volunteer military.
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Col Commander
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I'm all about inclusion. However, there are implications for ever decision we make. The DOD has increased spending to accommodate the new generation, women in combat, And LGBTQ. This would also increase spending as well. These are all good things. However, over the past few years we have kicked out a lot of good people because we needed to save money. How are we able to increase spending on personnel programs , when we are already cash strapped?
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PO1 Aviation Machinist's Mate
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Implications for not being able to wear a protective mask because a beard deny's a proper fit indicates one may die quicker, depending on the agent.
Concessions to accommodate the many different customs of many different religions would be a distraction and hinder mission accomplishment. Adjustments and change should be infrequent as possible,
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2LT Signal Officer
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No.
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SFC Alfredo Garcia
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My second post- After reviewing many of the comments here, it seems the majority are in favor of 'NO exceptions' as far as uniform wear. Same as with additional or modified BAS. I do not know of any exceptions granted with since the mid-80's. So the picture above of a very honorably decorated Soldier is no longer valid. He is retired and his grandfathered exception with it. He followed ALL rules. Made requests for waivers as permitted (and granted) by the regulations at the time. I would be honored to shake his hand for his contributions (and others). He was under the understanding that he may have to shave and wear typical uniforms for combat roles and if needed for certain missions. With his earned decoration and apparent level accomplishment he would comply with the needs of the Army. I truly would like to hear what his take is on it.

Many of comments below were enlightening, well written/argued, and even heartfelt but does not change my sentiment of no further exceptions. I will give you a weak analogy: I was grading an APFT. A very good friend missed the run by 3 seconds. He failed. He missed the standard. Some said I was being ridiculous, some applauded me to avoid the perception of favoritism. But it was more than that. Another Soldier missed it at about 8 or 9 seconds. Where do you draw the line? Simple - FM 21-20. Line was already drawn for me. It was up to me to set the example in grading fairly and objective and keeping my emotion and friendships out of it. It is up to the higher paygrades to decide what to make of it. I told my friend I would run with and do whatever it takes so he would be able to pass the test on his own merits and not sympathy. On a different test, I failed my 1SG for doing 'neck-ups' instead of actual pushups. I warned him and then failed him. He put me at parade rest and ordered me to grade him again and insisted on me counting them as correct. I respectfully refused. How am I to set the example if I give in to those who out rank me or my friends or need a 'favor'? One standard and it is already explicit.

What a SM does on their time is their business. Eat what you like, wear what you like, worship as you like, say what you like as long as it does not compromise the values of the military.
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SPC Greg K.
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When I was in, we were told there was no black, no white, now Hispanic...we were all GREEN. We were all uniform, there was no segregation. Yes, you are able to express your religious beliefs.....on Sunday, at church or whatever and wherever you worship. Keep it on your dog tag, shave your face and take off the turban. This only creates division, not unity. I know an E-4 currently serving with "Jedi Master" on his dog tags as his religion, does he get to wear a cloak and carry a light saber....HELL NO!!!! If diversity mean segregation (whether intentional or Politically Correct), then it's not unity....how does a divided military work and fight together. Our Military is a volunteer service, if you don't like the standards don't volunteer.
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SPC Greg K.
SPC Greg K.
9 y
Gregory, maybe I'm missing something but I'm scensing some sarcasm here and don't think you agree at all or you just don't understand the topic, and two: don't try to spin this into something off topic. What you say you agree with is nothing I said, that's on you. What exactly, do the headstones of our fallen Brothers and Sisters have anything to do with making exceptions to the current uniform based on religious beleifs?
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SSG Senior Maintenance Supervisor
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Not at all. Prior to joining you know what you are getting into. You as a person, must weigh the pro's and con's of conforming to the requirements of Service. The Service should not conform to your personal beliefs of clothing wear. The military is VOLUNTARY.

However, I believe it would be acceptable on special occasions to allow uniform deviance. ie, we allow Soldiers on Ash Wendsday to have the cross on their forehead. This is a one day deal, not an everyday occurrence.

BAS should be the same for all. Period. However, a junior Soldier in the barracks normally does not get BAS. I believe for a legit religious reason or legit medical dietary needs, that BAS should be authorized at the normal rate. However, wanting BAS because you are *voluntarily* 'gluten free' or all organic or vegetarian is not a reason (in my crazy mind).
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SFC Joseph Weber
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CPT Singh sure gets a lot of attention here.
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GySgt Robert Harbick
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Absolutely!
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1LT Tom Welch
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we have a 'uniform' for a reason, allowing individuality like this will lead to appeals for crazy hair colors and all sorts of politically convenient CRAP, be proud to wear it as it is supposed to be worn, I believe AR670-1 is the regulation for the Army. Stick to it, this is a ridiculous appeal to 'feel good 'about oneself, if you dont already wearing and individual uniform is no longer a uniform, its just clothes.
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1LT Tom Welch
1LT Tom Welch
9 y
just to add to this, Captain Singh may be top in his class and all that, but he makes an exception that sticks out to enlisted men in a way that cant be answered properly, and most of the folks on here know it. As for meals allowance, you get the same as everyone else, make it work. i am frankly amazed that this is even a question.
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SPC Combat Engineer
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Well I think in the case of dress uniform it should be OK but not with the ACU for reasons such as getting the promask on. The bead and such are a no no with any uniform. And as far as more bas is separate rastions not good enough?
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SPC Clinic Ninja
SPC (Join to see)
9 y
Have you seen the number of people on active duty sporting beards that violate their profiles?
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SPC Combat Engineer
SPC (Join to see)
9 y
Well that's lack of disaplin and the leader ship not being able to actually do something about it
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Sgt Infantryman
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ofcourse, and gender, and however you feel that morning.
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