Posted on Nov 17, 2013
Should the Army uniform only show name and US Army? (Getting rid of patches and badges)?
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I just like the fact that Airforce, Navy and Marines only have the name rank and their respective branch. They all look the same and they all don't seem to have the judgements we have in the army. I mean we in the army have the unit patches, skill badges and deployment patch. I believe that the army should be the same as the other services.
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Uniforms
Uniforms
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 79
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<p>It shows distinction and achievements! Some people are proud of what they have done and like to show it off when they can. Too many times you get Soldiers from other units, and when you tell them they have a dress uniform inspection coming up you see that scared look in their face. Only to find out that the whole 3-4 years they were at their last unit, they never once put the dress uniform on.</p><p> </p><p>As for saving money, there are far better things we can do as leaders to help our Soldiers save money than by stripping down our uniforms.</p>
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We want to inspire our junior Soldiers to achieve and go to schools and they look to the seniors for that. Also, SSG Norville hit it on the head: it let's people know who you are to ask questions about a future school, assignement or unit. But the bottom line is this: we are authorized, not required, to wear tabs and badges. Each Soldier can simply choose not to wear them.
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CW2 Stephen Pate
Sir, you make a good point. It may inspire young troops to attempt these schools and in effect create our replacements.
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CPT Bruce Beattie
I was standing in front of my reserve company in formation for inspection. An LTC from Brigade approached to conduct the inspection. I called the company to attention, saluted, and reported. The LTC, who was w/o combat patch and whose four rows of ribbons showed not one period of service overseas, looked me over. "Captain! You are out of uniform!" he said. "How so, Sir?" I inquired. "You are not wearing your ribbons." I glanced down at my left chest and observed my CIB. " Sir, I'm wearing the only thing that counts!" was my reply. He turned on his heel and walked away. ( I did have my combat patch on my right sleeve.) The current Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff frequently only wears two of his many rows of ribbons so I figure I must have been in good company!
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I see the wearing of patches and such in much the same way I do the rack we wear in ASUs. They tell the story of the person wearing them. It is amazing how much you can glean from a glance if you pay attention. Way back in the 80s I had a DS who struck fear into my heart. The guy was all of 5'6" and probably one of the meanest and impressive individuals I had ever had the misfortune of running into. I am relatively sure I still feel the brim of his brown round hitting me in the head as he yelled at me. As I recollect, he had Airborne, Air assault and Parhfinder tabs on his chest at a minimum. Understand, that there was no Google at this point so I was merely aware that he had a bunch of stuff on his chest I did not recognize. The other NCOs only had parts and pieces of what seemed way too many tabs for a small (but unimaginably wide) top. I did not need to be aware of the meaning of each of these tabs to realize this man had more than paid his dues in this life.
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Its a pride issue, keep them!
You pin a badge (be it ABN, AA, EOD…whatever) on a soldiers chest, it makes him a little prouder.
I remember as a young soldier seeing NCO's and O's with EIB's, Jump Wings and a Tab….it motivated me. Then to see a E-7 or Major with a CIB and a combat patch…hell it gave me confidence in that leader.
I think officers should display their branch insignia as well.
Combat patches are a big deal to a young soldier. Though we have bastardized it by giving them out willy-nilly. I have seen NG soldiers with two tours and authorized 7 different combat patches. Funny I will see someone with a 101st or 82nd and ask which BN they were in, they sheepishly tell me they were attached. Oh well. They should be proud of the unit they served in, not attached too.
From reading this thread, seems like there are some "sour grapes" from some folks because they don't have some badges. Be proud in your service, but don't knock something just because you don't have one.
I don't wear a Green Beret, HALO wings or EOD crab, but I respect the man who does.
Besides its the soldier that has to live up to the (awards, badges, tabs, patches) which he wears.
You pin a badge (be it ABN, AA, EOD…whatever) on a soldiers chest, it makes him a little prouder.
I remember as a young soldier seeing NCO's and O's with EIB's, Jump Wings and a Tab….it motivated me. Then to see a E-7 or Major with a CIB and a combat patch…hell it gave me confidence in that leader.
I think officers should display their branch insignia as well.
Combat patches are a big deal to a young soldier. Though we have bastardized it by giving them out willy-nilly. I have seen NG soldiers with two tours and authorized 7 different combat patches. Funny I will see someone with a 101st or 82nd and ask which BN they were in, they sheepishly tell me they were attached. Oh well. They should be proud of the unit they served in, not attached too.
From reading this thread, seems like there are some "sour grapes" from some folks because they don't have some badges. Be proud in your service, but don't knock something just because you don't have one.
I don't wear a Green Beret, HALO wings or EOD crab, but I respect the man who does.
Besides its the soldier that has to live up to the (awards, badges, tabs, patches) which he wears.
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LTC James L Guerrieri Sr
Or don't knock someone else who's service was honorable but never had an opportunity to get one! That is more to the point of the question.
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I think this is a horrible idea, and in the past I've always heard it called for by guys that have very little "flair" to put on their uniform. To me, soldiers that call for this come off as insecure in their lack of visible achievements. <br><br>SFC P, I'm not saying this necessarily applies to you, but I can't help but notice that you don't have any skill badges or a combat badge. If a soldier is so poor that they can't afford to buy badges to pin on, or have a few sets of ACUs with sewn on badges, then that soldier needs money management counseling. Respectfully, I find the uniformity comment absurd. <br>
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CW2 Stephen Pate
SGT Robertson, appreciate your response. You are right, I have zero special schools except for that damn AITPSG course and MRT, both of which I forced to do for an assigment. I have tried several times to get to some of these schools and even stood out of the parking lot every first monday of the month at 0500 for 7 months at the air assault school at my first duty station, only to be told that it was canceled. On month 8, that particular location shut down. Not to make excuses, but being on my fifth deployment with two years stuck in TRADOC and no ability to go to any schools, I just havent found the time. I have barely made time to accomplish my NCOES requirements. Trust me though, even though I'm considered too old for most of this, I plan on attending AA, Airborne, and hopefully even RASP when I get back. As for uniformity, I think you have to look at why uniformity is important. Is a couple of badges going to make a difference? Probably not, but it's just one more thing. I don't think that there is anything "wrong" with wearing these badges, but is it neccesary?
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SGT (Join to see)
SFC P,
I would like to clarify that there's nothing wrong with not having skill badges or a combat badge. Mechanics are not typically the guys that go outside the wire to find opportunities to earn a CAB, and Air Assault/Airborne/Pathfinder/whatever is over rated in some ways.
Now with that said I do feel like that if a solider has graduated from a course that authorizes the wear of a skill badge they should definitely have the right to wear it on their ACUs. Depending on your MOS and unit these things are very important. For example, an infantryman with a CIB has seen combat, which is their sole point of existence. A soldier in the 101st without Air Assault is lacking in a crucial skill set and knowledge base unique to their division. Badges such as these set the bearers apart from their peers and show they've worked to become role models for subordinate soldiers.
To answer if badges are necessary, of course their not. But there's a lot of things that can be argued that are not necessary on a uniform. Why have pockets if you're not allowed to put your hands in them? Why have the U.S. Army tape when your ACU pattern clearly indicates you're a soldier? Why have unit patches when they mean practically nothing in context of the soldier wearing them? Badges are there for what I believe are good reasons, and to take them away because of "uniformity" seems like a very poor excuse.
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Speaking as an Air Force (former Army) guy, a lot of us like the unit patches on the Army uniform. We used to wear unit patches before we lost the BDUs, and most people I know wish we could have them back!
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CPT (Join to see)
We still wear unit patches on the ACU. The only place we lost unit patches was on our "Class A" uniform
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Out of all the services I also like the Marine duty uniform and their dress uniform.
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Less is more.....but a Unit patch should be part of the "less"....unit cohesion and esprit de corps....(but not enough room on my shoulder for all of mine...even with none for the Navy - no ship tab :-( )
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SSG Matt Murphy
Interesting thought. Check out this 5 star general's fruit salad. Compare it with ones you see today. Less is more.
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Yes, I agree with the last statement that CW2 Vann made:
-Yes, it can look silly... I say save it all for the dress uniform.
-Yes, it can look silly... I say save it all for the dress uniform.
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I completely agree with this and while we're at it, let's pull the stupid velcro off and go back to sew on, and go back to rank on the collars( pin on or sew on). Badges should be kept as well.
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In general not a bad idea except for two points. First it is a matter of esprit de corps and personal pride. Pride is a good thing in a Soldier. And second, sometimes it matters. When you are putting on your chute and need a Jumpmaster or a Rigger, it is good to see those wings.
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SSG (Join to see)
Roger Sir.
I would add the universally known truth. Seeing the same combat patch on another soldier instantly starts conversations that might never otherwise take place.
Espirit de corps would be affected by a loss of the unit patch and the former wartime service shoulder sleeve insignia (aka combat patch).
Badges are great but the 'one and done' representation of attending/passing the service school but never operating in the capacity seems near the point of fraud waste and abuse in today's financially savvy climate.
No offense intended to any former ROTCers out there but getting a slot at and succeeding in Pathfinder, Air Assault and Airborne schools then direct commissioning in a non-combat arms capacity proves those slots could have been much more appreciated by the units that actually need their personnel to have them.
I would add the universally known truth. Seeing the same combat patch on another soldier instantly starts conversations that might never otherwise take place.
Espirit de corps would be affected by a loss of the unit patch and the former wartime service shoulder sleeve insignia (aka combat patch).
Badges are great but the 'one and done' representation of attending/passing the service school but never operating in the capacity seems near the point of fraud waste and abuse in today's financially savvy climate.
No offense intended to any former ROTCers out there but getting a slot at and succeeding in Pathfinder, Air Assault and Airborne schools then direct commissioning in a non-combat arms capacity proves those slots could have been much more appreciated by the units that actually need their personnel to have them.
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I won't lie, I find it pretty impressive to see someone's accomplishments. I think it is perfectly fine. After all, they had to work hard for it. They earned it and should be able to show it off. I doubt its the case, but some may go through the training just to look bad-a something something. More power to them and their accomplishments.
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Interesting question. THe AF just finally allowed members to wear "tabs" earned from the sisters.
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MSgt (Join to see)
and yet we don't wear any of our command or unit patches anymore, unless you're wearing bags
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All other debates withstanding, I am just anxious to get a camo pattern that actually works. UCP is a tragic failure.
I don't mind the cut of the ACU, but I would like to see the velcro go away for the most part. However, I have trouble with the buttons on the new ACU tops. The spacing for the wrist cuffs seems to be either too tight or too lose. My solution was to have alterations add a new button hole for me.
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One of the biggest things I have seen is the former marines coming over to the army and feeling left out with the combat patches. They decide to wear the 1st Marine Division (Guadalcanal) patch which is against regulation. That is one thing I wouldn't mind losing. I defenitely agree with CW2 Vann with leaving it for the dress uniform.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
I'm a prior Marine, and I correct other prior Marines for that all the time. I myself was guilty of it until I read the regulation.... I completely understand their position, I'd love to sport a 1st Marine Division patch too, but regs are regs, and it's just not authorized.
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SGT (Join to see)
I'm a former Marine also. I carry the 1st Mar Div patch in my right pocket, but I do not where it. I have seen a prior Airman wear his blue Air Force unit patch on the ACUs, but that didn't last long.
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
Thanks for the info. I have been wearing my 1st Mar Patch. I will retire it to my pocket. Question...If it's against regs why is it even made available?
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MAJ (Join to see)
The Department of the Navy, the United States Marine Corps (USMC), and the Air Force do not authorize wear of SSI. Therefore, personnel who served in one of the designated areas during one of the specified periods, but who were not members of the U.S. Army, are not authorized to wear the SSI–FWTS on their right shoulder.
Section 28.17 Page 239
Soldiers who served with the 1st Marine Division from 19 March 2003 to 21 April 2003 during combat operations in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom are authorized to wear the 1st Marine Division shoulder sleeve insignia as their SSI-FWTS.
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Only a total of three badges are authorized. The occupational, joint and duty badges are not job specific. The occupational does display the "field" that you are in, and the skill level. In the army: the "job" would be a welder and the "field" would be the ordinance corp, but the army doesn't display a skill level nor do they display the "field" you're in. Badges should only be displayed that are joint(parachutist, etc.) or duty(MTL/drill instructor, security/MP, etc.)
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I say keep them. All that I had was my EIB and my drill sergeant identification badge but I was proud of both and they do show people who and what you are. What is wrong with being proud of your accomplishments?
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SSG Turkezer,
I work in a joint environment and I have to say that the Air Force and Navy both wear patches which identify specialties on their uniforms, other than rank, name and branch. This means they do not all look uniform. For example, a Navy PO1 next to me currently has a warfare specialty patch indicating he is additionally qualified in "Enlisted information dominance warfare", while another Navy PO1 on the other side has both that AND a separate patch indicating he did 'fly' duty. The LTJG (O2) down the way doesn't have any additional patches yet because he hasn't tested in any specialties. If a Navy service member goes on a sub or does 'surface' duty, they also have different patches...
Air Force is the same way. You have a patch on your chest which shows which branch or MOS (AFSC) you are in, and if you have done special duty, like Air Crew, you wear that patch- and you continue to wear it even after you leave air crew. This is all according to the Navy and Air Force personnel around me. The Marine has left for PT, so I cannot inspect his uniform. I see no reason to have our various accouterments on our uniforms, and I am proud of my badges and patches.
I work in a joint environment and I have to say that the Air Force and Navy both wear patches which identify specialties on their uniforms, other than rank, name and branch. This means they do not all look uniform. For example, a Navy PO1 next to me currently has a warfare specialty patch indicating he is additionally qualified in "Enlisted information dominance warfare", while another Navy PO1 on the other side has both that AND a separate patch indicating he did 'fly' duty. The LTJG (O2) down the way doesn't have any additional patches yet because he hasn't tested in any specialties. If a Navy service member goes on a sub or does 'surface' duty, they also have different patches...
Air Force is the same way. You have a patch on your chest which shows which branch or MOS (AFSC) you are in, and if you have done special duty, like Air Crew, you wear that patch- and you continue to wear it even after you leave air crew. This is all according to the Navy and Air Force personnel around me. The Marine has left for PT, so I cannot inspect his uniform. I see no reason to have our various accouterments on our uniforms, and I am proud of my badges and patches.
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I think is fine the way we are right now, is part of a history, that what make us difference.
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