Posted on Mar 28, 2016
MSG Shawn Eaton
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H&W and PT test seem to be a controversial discussion nowadays. Some say H&W shouldn't matter if the Soldiers are fit enough to pass the requirements. Some say the standards where set for the older generations before now. Some say PT is the only way to measure leadership and discipline. What are your thoughts?!!
Posted in these groups: Height and weight logo Height and WeightP542 APFTLogo no word s Fitness
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CPT History Program
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Yes. The physical fitness test is very easy to pass. The two combined are necessary to keep medical costs down and readiness up. Physical appearance is also necessary to keep the confidence of our civilian populace. It should be obvious to everyone that when a civilian sees an obese person in uniform that it plants doubt in the efficacy of their tax dollars toward the military. It also elicits ridicule which is something that is detrimental to our mission. That being said, we need better tools for measuring body fat content, the tape test only creates cynicism in the system which is itself bad for discipline.
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Cpl James Waycasie
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I think a professional Military appearance in Uniform has to come into play. If you look like a slob in uniform then they will "fix" you. I knew Marines that were way over weight due to bulking up with protein and weights. They still gave a good image in uniform so nothing was said to them. I know others that could pass the PFT but looked hoggish in uniform. They were told to shape up their appearance. Looks can be deceiving. I think anyone who wears a uniform in roles such as the Military, Police, Fire fighters, etc should be aware of their appearance in the uniform they represent. Nobody wants a "Ned Beatty squealing like a pig" look alike for their poster child, lol.
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Col Group Commander
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Medically speaking, the fitness standards are an excellent screening tool for overall health. Pushups and situps are ideal to measure your core strength. This is an indicator of injury susceptibility. Maximum abdominal circumference is an indicator of visceral fat. Visceral fat is the fat you do not see since it is surrounding your organs (including your heart). Statistically, persons with a round protruding abdomen have a higher risk of heart attack. The body must supply blood to the fatty tissues which reduces your available blood supply to vital organs in a time of high activity. Significant muscle mass (as in weight-lifters) does not decrease the risk. The run / walk is an indicator of heart and lung health. Again, it is about getting oxygenated blood to your vital organs. Besides, you need to look good in your uniform. Additionally, personal discipline is a key factor in leadership.
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I know this response is a year old, but I think it only touches on certain aspects of what a good leader is. A good leader is a lot more then a PT score. Yes, a leader should be physically fit, but a 300 on a PT test doesn't mean you're also a good leader. A good leader listens not just hears their soldiers. A good leader doesn't have all the answers, but knows where to find them. A good leader takes care of their soldiers, not just themselves. I have seen plenty of officers above me that can get a 300 on their PT test but don't give two shits about their soldiers.
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One more thing...if your answer is "must not question regulation and search for better way...must do as we have always done..." then that's the wrong answer too. If we all had that mentality, we would still be wearing blue coats and firing muskets in-line.
CPO Arthur Weinberger
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Height and weight standards should be enforced. Pt also. During my tenure in the service, I was allowed to carry an extra ten pounds. This, due to bone structure and muscularity.
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CW2 Pilot
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Well my issue is if you look at pictures of soldiers, especially in the gyms, back in like the Vietnam era their body composition was no where near most of us today. You can see them doing curls with small weights and are real skinny. But nowadays more soldiers are into heavy weight lifting or cross fit and muscle wise we have more muscle mass than those before us. With that said the H/W standards need to change. For example for my height I'm suppose to weight no more than 168. I started lifting in junior high school and have not weighed that since freshman year. But because of this I'm always taped even with a pt score of over 290 each time. I have seen soldiers score on the extended scale and still be taped. I have seen soldiers with six packs get flagged for H/W because they had a small neck which is ridiculous. But then I have seen soldiers that are clearly over weight pass due to having no neck syndrome or just a really thick neck. The Army needs to have a standard but they need to seriously revamp this one. I think that if they pass with a 270 or above (90 in each event they should not have to be taped regardless of weight) however at the same time if they are obviously popping out of their uniform but still pass the APFT then they should be flagged on having an unprofessional appearance and not on being overweight since they can still perform the physical duties. It may need to get tweaked a little but that's what I think they need to think about and fix.
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SSG Environmental Specialist
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Yes it should but I realize that there are some exceptions. I served with a SSG who was into body building, he could never pass the Ht/wt scale so had to be taped every time, used to piss him off.
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PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM
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Like most of the standards coming out of the Pentagon since the end of Vietnam these too are pure BS! The people who thought them up have no more idea what it is like on the ground with an enemy trying to kill you or in my case on a flight deck for 12 hours loading out Aircraft with weapons most of the time by hand and pulling bomb skids with over 3000# of HEI all over a pitching deck. After Vietnam, I finally rotated to shore duty and I came face to face with the height and weight standards. They did not give a damn as long as I was humping the bombs on the aircraft, but now the Navy considered me fat. 5'9" 200# of solid muscle. I ended up being sent to Homestead AFB to the Hospital there where I went through a battery of tests, medical and Physical. They weighed me in a tub of water and dry to determine my BMI, I went out to a track and kept up with two Air Force medics as we did a series of running and exercises then I told them to take me to the base Gym where I proceeded to make them look pitiful in free weights, the Universal Gym. At the end of two weeks a 2 star General walked into the room I was in and asked me Why the Navy was trying to put me out? I said very simple I did not look good in Bell Bottpms, and the pentagon is full of Idiots. He told me that if the Navy succeeded, to come join the Air Force, After the Air Force fiasco, I was sent to D.D. Eisenhower Army Medical Center at Fort Gordon and the Army had their chance to prove me unfit. More tests, a strict diet, more PT and the same results. Physically fit for duty. Plus I did meet a dynamite Nurse who made it her personal responsibility to take care of me. she even switched duty with a few other nurses so she would be on duty while I was there. She said I reminded her of her Father, who had also served in the Navy in WWII and Korea as had mine. "Ya gotta love Nurses!!! But I digress...
The pencil necked geeks who write these standards would not last a day in the trenches, on a flight deck, or in the engine rooms. THAT is where the real military does their jobs. Not on a set of scales and that piece of tape is not going to protect our coasts or defend our Republic.
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SPC(P) Carlos Santini
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I say hell no. If they pass the PT Tests than leave the troop alone.
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SGT Morrison  (Mike) Hogwood
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I feel the body fat compositions test should be done by the Medical folks like it did back in the late 70's and 80's,they did the caliper test to determine body fat,left at the unit level you can still have that good ole boy group that slide and the ones that the command does not like and their gone,the current test can be manipulated for the good and the bad, and what was stated by another poster it's a commander tool to use at their disposal,but where does the military stop at when trying to find ways to eliminate good soldier's from the service,when the wars stop the military get's smaller
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