Posted on Jun 30, 2014
Should the US Navy allow all berthing areas on Ship to be open to both genders?
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In the US Navy we have Traditionally Berthed enlisted personnel by Department and Division on Ships. With the introduction of Women on ships the Enlisted Berthing Areas have now been segregated into males being berthed by Department and Division and females into their separate areas. Officers live in Staterooms of 1, 2, or more officers and so the problem is much easier to handle.
To me this has always been strange because it breaks up work groups and separates people artificially. Sex between Sailors on the same ship has never been allowed, so that should not be a problem (right!) Now we have the added mixture of people being openly gay yet still assigned to the same berthing considerations.
BEQs at Shore Establishments have different rules based on availability of housing more than on gender. Is it time for a change or not?
To me this has always been strange because it breaks up work groups and separates people artificially. Sex between Sailors on the same ship has never been allowed, so that should not be a problem (right!) Now we have the added mixture of people being openly gay yet still assigned to the same berthing considerations.
BEQs at Shore Establishments have different rules based on availability of housing more than on gender. Is it time for a change or not?
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Women in the Military
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Posted >1 y ago
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CMDCM Gene Treants. I don't know what may be decided . . . but if fully integrated . . . knowing at least a few marines and sailors with access to my quarters may have less than fully honorable intentions . . . I would probably sleep with a fully loaded, chambered, and cocked M1911A1 under my pillow . . . to defend both the honor and the integrity of my brothers and sisters . . . until our culture changes. Warmest Regards, Sandy
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PO2 William Fornwalt. I agree . . . do the experiment, critique results, rework, and try again. Warmest Regards, Sandy
PO2 Johnathan Kerns
The deployment goggles are real :)
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ENS (Join to see)
That sidearm is badass!
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ENS (Join to see) - I found it more pleasant than most other side arms. Sandy :)
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When I was in Afghanistan my team all slept together. It was me and only one other female on the base at the time and we just dropped a blanket between their side and ours at night. We set clear rules and everything was gravy. We set me and the other girl on the side of the tent they faced the Hesco. The SgtMaj from the unit we were supporting got wind of it and made our unit bring out a two man tent just for us. We were made to set up away from our males and it was next to our tool tent. We even had to put a sign up. As soon as this happened we had at least one incident a night where dudes from the other unit came into our tent after nightfall. Do....not...seperate...teams. Ever. That is where the problems come from. Creating divides and not fostering true esprit de corps. We always slept in the same tent (or area under he stars) as our guys. The only time there were problems was when someone made us seperate. This is experience, not theory.
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LCDR (Join to see)
Good stuff shipmates. I agree with the sailors in this thread. - "Sea, air, land: we've got your bases covered."
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PO2 Christopher Foss
For the service members that have not been posted on a ship, let me offer a few considerations.
First, go into a bathroom that has a combination bath and shower. Look at that volume of space, think about how roomy it is or is not.
Second, imagine six, or possibly eight single beds off the long sides of the tub in bunk configuration. Then, make it so that only one of the narrow ends is open. While you are doing this, enclose the bunks on five of the six surfaces so that only one of the long sides is open. This is a standard berthing space.
Six to eight sailors live in that space when the ship is underway. Now, unless you are planning on making special arrangements inside the berthing, that six to eight people are mixed gender.
They are going to live in those confines for the entire six or more month deployment. Not a patrol, not some out and back exercise, six or more months. During that time, you have watches to stand, differing shifts to work, communal bathrooms, the whole shebang.
Consider this, when general quarters (battle stations for the uneducated) sounds, every one of the people in those bunks has less then 10 minutes to get to their station. The entire ship is controlled chaos, and you can guarantee that someone is going to be in someone else's personal space.
Still with me? Now, add to that human nature and the UCMJ. It is illegal for me to sexually harass my ship mates, but that can be done simply by looking at one of them "if they feel harassed".
First, go into a bathroom that has a combination bath and shower. Look at that volume of space, think about how roomy it is or is not.
Second, imagine six, or possibly eight single beds off the long sides of the tub in bunk configuration. Then, make it so that only one of the narrow ends is open. While you are doing this, enclose the bunks on five of the six surfaces so that only one of the long sides is open. This is a standard berthing space.
Six to eight sailors live in that space when the ship is underway. Now, unless you are planning on making special arrangements inside the berthing, that six to eight people are mixed gender.
They are going to live in those confines for the entire six or more month deployment. Not a patrol, not some out and back exercise, six or more months. During that time, you have watches to stand, differing shifts to work, communal bathrooms, the whole shebang.
Consider this, when general quarters (battle stations for the uneducated) sounds, every one of the people in those bunks has less then 10 minutes to get to their station. The entire ship is controlled chaos, and you can guarantee that someone is going to be in someone else's personal space.
Still with me? Now, add to that human nature and the UCMJ. It is illegal for me to sexually harass my ship mates, but that can be done simply by looking at one of them "if they feel harassed".
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PO2 Christopher Foss
SSgt Joseph Baptist - What is currently done on mixed gender ships is to have a male and female berthing. A large amount of consideration is given to movement on a ship during GQ, and how to get from your berth to your station is a part of that.
Placing the crew in mixed gender berthings will not not really change anything in terms of GQ movements as you still need the same volume of living quarters, it is just now mixed instead of one or the other.
Placing the crew in mixed gender berthings will not not really change anything in terms of GQ movements as you still need the same volume of living quarters, it is just now mixed instead of one or the other.
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The Australians have been doing this for awhile onboard their submarines. I have discussed this with their enlisted personnel and officers and it didn't seem to be a problem. Others have raised concerns about spouses and the "problems" that could arise. If the Navy wants to fully integrate, it is time to rip the bandaid off in one clean jerk and get it over with. Many logistics issues could be solved if we got over our cultural bias in regards to berthing. Especially now that the Navy openly allows people of any sexual preference to serve, and rightfully so, the reasons for maintaining separate berthing are moot.
Also, for all of you that seem to be concerned about "the inevitable" occurring, it sounds to me that you think we can trust our sailors, soldiers, and marines to make life and death decisions on a daily basis but God forbid we allow them to make decisions about sex.
Also, for all of you that seem to be concerned about "the inevitable" occurring, it sounds to me that you think we can trust our sailors, soldiers, and marines to make life and death decisions on a daily basis but God forbid we allow them to make decisions about sex.
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PO1 Chad Alcock
I'm sure it happened before women were allowed on the ships, I've heard that it did anyway, but it wasn't as highly publicized for I'm sure obvious reason. I've never been on a ship without women. Working with women was a huge change coming from combat arms in the Army. Speaking of which, this is not a Navy specific issue. I've heard of soldiers getting in trouble for having sex while deployed. As someone else said in another post where there's a will, there's a way. I was told of a couple being caught in a water buffalo, by the person that caught them. I hope they sanitized it thoroughly.
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PO3 (Join to see)
Sir, I can only imagine the number of sexual harassment cases and assaults that would result in integrating mixed gender berthings..
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LT (Join to see)
PO3 (Join to see), this is exactly the type of thinking that must be overcome. If we are worried about sexual harassment and assault, the answer isn't to keep everyone separate. The solution is to teach them right from wrong. By integrating berthings not only does the Navy save money, but we start the process of developing a culture where it is accepted that both men and women are sailors. More importantly that they are sailors first. When my daughter acts out at school, I don't keep her home from school for the rest of her life. I teach her why her acting out is bad and then send her back to school the next day. Integrating berthing will help us change our culture.
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LCDR (Join to see)
Does your daughter go to the boys restroom or locker room at school? Boys and girls, men and women are different and that is a good thing. Frankly, we do a disservice to our sisters in arms by not standing up for them and giving them separate berthings. LT Miller, I respectfully disagree with your trains of thought. They lead to moral and practical wrecks (so glad the Aussies aren't our role models)!
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