Posted on Jun 30, 2014
Should the US Navy allow all berthing areas on Ship to be open to both genders?
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In the US Navy we have Traditionally Berthed enlisted personnel by Department and Division on Ships. With the introduction of Women on ships the Enlisted Berthing Areas have now been segregated into males being berthed by Department and Division and females into their separate areas. Officers live in Staterooms of 1, 2, or more officers and so the problem is much easier to handle.
To me this has always been strange because it breaks up work groups and separates people artificially. Sex between Sailors on the same ship has never been allowed, so that should not be a problem (right!) Now we have the added mixture of people being openly gay yet still assigned to the same berthing considerations.
BEQs at Shore Establishments have different rules based on availability of housing more than on gender. Is it time for a change or not?
To me this has always been strange because it breaks up work groups and separates people artificially. Sex between Sailors on the same ship has never been allowed, so that should not be a problem (right!) Now we have the added mixture of people being openly gay yet still assigned to the same berthing considerations.
BEQs at Shore Establishments have different rules based on availability of housing more than on gender. Is it time for a change or not?
Gender
Women in the Military
Boats
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 150
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Personally I believe it's time to practice what is preached. They instill from day one of boot that the men and women in your division/unit/barracks/ship etc are your brothers and sisters. Your home away from home, your military family. So why treat one another like strangers when it comes to living space? That just never made sense to me. From experience some of my closest and most trusted friendships in the Nacy are people I still to this day consider family & I can say I shared a room sometimes even a bed with them and never once were lines crossed, male or female, and I trust any one of them with my life. To this day, I have never felt safer as when I was sharing my daily living space and experiences with the people I now consider my brothers and sisters.
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FN Rurik Schutte
SN Erika Chaparro Gomez
Are you the only child in your family? I would never shower with my sister. Would you shower with your brother?
Are you the only child in your family? I would never shower with my sister. Would you shower with your brother?
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SN Erika Chaparro Gomez
FN Rurik Schutte are you? I assure youbthat if you're not that at one point you did shower with your sibling(s) just so happened that you had no concept of what sex was when you did. Are you implying that you lack self control of yourself and cannot handle an act as simple as hygiene if there was a female around? So what is your take on homosexual males and females then, are you implying that they should be segregated and forced to shower seperately? There really is no difference aside feom from sexual preference and genitalia.
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As anyone can already go into any berthing especially females into males to access spaces on the ship it would actually be easier to integrate. On the CVN I was on to access CIWS MT21 I had to go thru a male berthing and head. Major pain in the bottom. As it is people already have sex on the ship in spaces where they cannot be seen or out on the fan tail. Racks are too small for that stuff and even then girls got caught in the same rack as another female all the time. So why not?
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CMDCM Gene Treants
Unless things have changed a lot since I was one, aren't CC's in the business of fixing problems? So, assuming that Navy says this is the way it is going to be, what do you do next Shipmate?
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FN Rurik Schutte
By now I can see you are really for this or you are just Trying to see how much push back there is. Why add to the list of problems?
I like a good debate, I would not use this Way to easy to discredit.
I like a good debate, I would not use this Way to easy to discredit.
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There is an obvious agenda in America to uni-sex everything and everyone. If they want to do that in Europe, they can go right ahead. I prefer to use the men's bathroom (head) and sleep in the male berthing, without women around in both situations. Call me traditional, old fashioned, a prude... I don't care.
I'm sure it will happen eventually. Hopefully not until after I retire though.
I'm sure it will happen eventually. Hopefully not until after I retire though.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
Actually Senior, when I posted this question, I think was looking at the handwriting on the wall. I am not sure when it will happen, but for efficiency, I do not see it taking that much longer. In reality, do you SCPO (Join to see)? Especially in CPO berthing?
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SCPO (Join to see)
I don't think we are quite ready yet, especially with the flawed perception being forced upon the public that sexual assaults are rampant in the military. I hope you're wrong and it doesn't happen for a long time. I really don't want to have to deal with the fall-out that will undoubtedly occur.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
I agree that there will be some fallout, and I think a bunch of it will come from husbands and wives, more than Sailors and sexual assaults. I know back in the 90's a lot of the flack came from that direction too, hopefully most of that is gone now.
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i dont see anything wrong with co-ed berthing. regardless if you are separated by gender or not, if two people are attracted and wish to have sex with each other, there are plenty of places on board to hide away and do such, even on submarines i could list off a slew of possible locations. sleeping separately or co-ed wont make a difference there. the problem will come when someone becomes childish and does something stupid, sadly there are so many childish personal in the military that those acts will never totally disappear (ie: filming the female officers shower on the wyoming).
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CMDCM Gene Treants
Exactly my point PO2 (Join to see). Just sleeping in the same space does not mean sex in the same space. We do need to get rid of the children.
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PO2 (Join to see)
I understand where you are coming from with sleeping in a co-ed berthing wouldn't be bad if it was just a place to sleep. But you have both genders getting dressed and showering. If it was just to sleep then I wouldn't mind as a female. But I wouldn't be comfortable showering or changing in the same berthing as the males do, not to mention when you have drills/GQs that you have to respond to quickly and get dressed for. Having separate berthings gives each that privacy so females can do their things and the same with males. Gives you a downtime/break from the other genders. As we all know, females take time to get get their hair up and ready which would cause a problem for the males that don't take as long. I don't believe it is a good idea at all.
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How is placing personnel of both sexes in the same berthing areas a positive thing or gain any force readiness? We can go by the "rules are rules" theory and believe that everyone will follow them - I doubt that would be 100% efficient. "Time honored tradition" theory may cause most to hesitate on poor and less than honorable behavior but at the end of the day this idea seems to cause more problems than it solves and at an expensive cost personnel wise.
Nature has a way of separating humans intrinsically and it's not nice to try and fool mother nature.
Nature has a way of separating humans intrinsically and it's not nice to try and fool mother nature.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
It is positive because it fills bunks with people. One of the problems with ships is the limited number of bunks and the limited number of compartments that hold these bunks. Naval Architects have never considered gender when designing ships of any type, Consequently most ships have berthing areas that contain 30, 40, 50, or more bunks. The number is often determined by the space available. Add to this the limited number of facilities in the head. For a CPO berthing area on an Aegis Cruiser there were about 40 bunks and the head had 2 showers, 2 commodes, 2 urinals, and 4 sinks. Now imagine it is reveille. and add the 12 bunks in the CPO Overflow berthing area to the Head usage. Put 1 female CPO in one of these spaces.
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CPT Richard Riley
I see your reasoning for leaning positive regarding filling 'bunk' spaces with people. I'm 3 leagues out of my bailywick addressing a naval billiting issue, but my common sense tells me 90 percent of the fleet was constructed prior to 1980 and that may be the root cause for personnel logistics issues. Consider my comment an opinion and I will defer to your expertise rather than my thought.
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FN Rurik Schutte
"Nature has a way of separating humans intrinsically and it's not nice to try and fool mother nature."
You CAN'T fool mother mature.
Stare Ship Troopers is just a movie, smaller berthings means more space taken up for berthing.
You CAN'T fool mother mature.
Stare Ship Troopers is just a movie, smaller berthings means more space taken up for berthing.
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I question the wisdom of putting all members of a Division or Department in the same berthing compartment. One well aimed torpedo or bomb could take out critical personnel in one fell swoop.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
PO1 Tony Holland I love it when people think outside the box Shipmate. Just because we have always done it that way don't make it the best way. As soon as I read this, I realized the benefits of your idea, way beyond what you suggested. Think about unit cohesion as well. BMs getting to know Snipes off duty. Molders mixing in with ETs and FCs. OSs talking to BTs and playing cards with them. What a concept. I really like it. I am going to post your suggestion on the COmmand Master Chief FB Page and see if any of the Active Duty CMC's can take it for action. Great Idea Shipmate!
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Hell no you would really have problems. I have been out over 22 years and I don't know if I could restraint myself. I don't want to sound like this oversexed pervert but look at it this way. Have you ever been in a berthing compartment of a ship its not like individual rooms, plaster or even steel walls between the racks. The truth is I am thinking of how it would be like it back when I was on board and thinking like a 19 year old and there is a woman next to me within 3 feet or less on 60 day out at sea period. No way.
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