Posted on Jun 30, 2014
Should the US Navy allow all berthing areas on Ship to be open to both genders?
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In the US Navy we have Traditionally Berthed enlisted personnel by Department and Division on Ships. With the introduction of Women on ships the Enlisted Berthing Areas have now been segregated into males being berthed by Department and Division and females into their separate areas. Officers live in Staterooms of 1, 2, or more officers and so the problem is much easier to handle.
To me this has always been strange because it breaks up work groups and separates people artificially. Sex between Sailors on the same ship has never been allowed, so that should not be a problem (right!) Now we have the added mixture of people being openly gay yet still assigned to the same berthing considerations.
BEQs at Shore Establishments have different rules based on availability of housing more than on gender. Is it time for a change or not?
To me this has always been strange because it breaks up work groups and separates people artificially. Sex between Sailors on the same ship has never been allowed, so that should not be a problem (right!) Now we have the added mixture of people being openly gay yet still assigned to the same berthing considerations.
BEQs at Shore Establishments have different rules based on availability of housing more than on gender. Is it time for a change or not?
Gender
Women in the Military
Boats
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 150
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This should be very simple!! I am assuming that the military has had separate berthings because of the whole sex issue. Men being attracted to women and women being attracted to men. Put them in the same berthing and things are going to happen. but wait!!! now we have homosexuals open in the military. Very simply we should have same sex berthings or have 4 separate berthings, male, female, gay female, gay male.
Now just think if we had one berthing!! Our physical fitness scores would increase positively in no time at all.... we would have overweight senior people taking showers with new slim in shape girls and guys... they would be getting in shape just so that they wouldn't look like crap in the showers....
Now just think if we had one berthing!! Our physical fitness scores would increase positively in no time at all.... we would have overweight senior people taking showers with new slim in shape girls and guys... they would be getting in shape just so that they wouldn't look like crap in the showers....
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CMDCM Gene Treants
Sarcasm does not get you more points, just more chuckles and, well if people vote you up, then yes, more points. lol BTW - no open showers on ships for years that I know about, but nice try.
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PO1 John Tatom
I understand but watching a girl in a towel walking across the head would work. and I remember many a long line just waiting for a shower. It would still work. Heck, I might even try and come back in!!!
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Not sure if anyone brought this into it but: http://time.com/36484/norwegian-army-unisex-dorms/
"It may sound like a counter-intuitive move, but the Norwegian Army’s decision to make females share bedrooms with their male colleagues has actually led to a drop in sexual harassment." Well look at that, they become a team...
"It may sound like a counter-intuitive move, but the Norwegian Army’s decision to make females share bedrooms with their male colleagues has actually led to a drop in sexual harassment." Well look at that, they become a team...
Norway's Army Has Introduced Unisex Dorms and Reports No Problems
Sharing bedrooms is reducing gender differences and increasing team spirit
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CMDCM Gene Treants
Wow, could it be possible that familiarity breeds teams and not contempt? What a strange concept. Could this work in the US Navy? Or are Americans to immature?
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PO1 (Join to see)
Master Chief, Im pretty sure that it would go both ways. Yes some Americans would just be too immature and you would have that group saying that its immoral but then on the flip side you would create a culture of acceptance and team spirit. But that would take time. And maybe im just a glass half full person but im betting if the Navy started this it would have a positive impact on the country as a whole. It would certainly (if successful) prove to be a major milestone in gender equality.
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SFC (Join to see)
^ Agreed. If the people thought "damn a lot can go wrong if we go into space better not do it" then there would be a Russian flag on that moon first. However we have that major milestone, and would have another just like PO1 Stevens said.
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I think once Don't ask, don't tell was invoked then repealed it brought to light issues that people see and now try to hide behind SHARP, EO, and more power points. Everything is to to shift the blame from the perpetrators to a failure in leadership. Their action is what was wrong - if you graduated high school... heck even middle school and went the basic training you know "Right and Wrong" and there are bad people out there.
There are people that like same sex, different sex, all sex, no sex, whatever sex out there. They have slept in the same bay as you, a bay down the hall, another building or ship. Those who break the rules should get punished. Like felony grade discharged never coming back to the united states ever type punishment.
For those are so against the idea of guy next to girl - you do know more males get raped due to the fact that there are more males in the military? You should know rape isn't about sex, or did you fall asleep in SHARP training? Rape is about power. It can happen any where, any time. Stop punishing the 99% that do the right thing, because one bad apple.
I personally rather have an experiment - have 100 people in a bay mix genders and sexual preferences and then 100 same like people with personal rooms... we can all figure out where the actual problem is going to come from right? .... ?
Either way, we are a team;
(If there are mistakes in grammar, oops. This kind of irked me)
There are people that like same sex, different sex, all sex, no sex, whatever sex out there. They have slept in the same bay as you, a bay down the hall, another building or ship. Those who break the rules should get punished. Like felony grade discharged never coming back to the united states ever type punishment.
For those are so against the idea of guy next to girl - you do know more males get raped due to the fact that there are more males in the military? You should know rape isn't about sex, or did you fall asleep in SHARP training? Rape is about power. It can happen any where, any time. Stop punishing the 99% that do the right thing, because one bad apple.
I personally rather have an experiment - have 100 people in a bay mix genders and sexual preferences and then 100 same like people with personal rooms... we can all figure out where the actual problem is going to come from right? .... ?
Either way, we are a team;
(If there are mistakes in grammar, oops. This kind of irked me)
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CMDCM Gene Treants
SFC (Join to see) this is exactly the response I was looking for when I posted the question, thanks. People who stop and think may actually lead and not just parrott. I appreciate the time you took to formulate a response, what grammar errors? and who cares, love the passion!
Wish I could vote you UP more that one time for an outstanding response!
Wish I could vote you UP more that one time for an outstanding response!
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Having sailors grouped by division is not an "artificial" criterion. It supports accountability for cleanliness and maintenance by a specific chain of command. It also supports work schedules that might be unique to a particular division. Berthing males and females together is not conducive to good order and discipline at sea. Do whatever you want at shore establishments.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
CAPT (Join to see) Sir, you really started out with a very forceful argument FOR putting all Sailors in one Division/Department in a single area and I fully agree with that Captain. Then you reversed yourself with the good order and discipline and deferring to spouses for a decision.
Captain, I have seen a spouse come on the Quarterdeck as a ship was getting ready to deploy, claim her husband was abusive, and punch him in order to get him to stay behind. Is this really the person you want dictating policy to Navy? Since when do we give spouses any votes on Navy Policy, any Navy Policy at all?
Captain, I have seen a spouse come on the Quarterdeck as a ship was getting ready to deploy, claim her husband was abusive, and punch him in order to get him to stay behind. Is this really the person you want dictating policy to Navy? Since when do we give spouses any votes on Navy Policy, any Navy Policy at all?
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To integrate the sexes within berthings is only going to make things worse. This will just make it easier for everyone to have sexual relationships and the navy standards of sexual assault, fraternization, and adultery still apply? We are already dealing with sexual assault, y makes things worse!
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CMDCM Gene Treants
PO3 (Join to see) That is why we have First Class Petty Officers. They are supposed to be real leaders just like any other Petty Officer, but a little older and more mature. Imagine the repercussions to a First Class Petty Officer's Career if his berthing space gets out of control. You should NOT need Chiefs to deal with all problems.
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PO2 (Join to see)
Ok, yes u r right about the first leadership at that point but it also everyone's personal responsibility to abide by the navy's rules and standards... First class petty officers cannot handle all the problems either... Someone would have to be on 24hr watch which I think we have enough on our plates out on ships, we shouldn't need to add babysitting to it as well!
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PO1 (Join to see)
We already "baby sit". When was the last time you saw a fireman/seaman/airman who proactively went and did sweepers with out a third or above telling them? Hell when was the last time you saw a third hold sweepers with out a second or above telling them? How about how often do you have to talk to a third or above about being to work on time? This all falls under the leadership of a First/Second Class. As it is a First Class routinely gets their feet held to the fire for anything their people do or do not do. To say a first class cant handle all the problems means that they are not being supported by thier second classes and are not being backed up and being given quality training by their cheif. Either way a failure on that level would be huge.
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Yes I believe we should it's honestly like drinking you see the number of underage drinking incidents here because you have to be twenty one, yet in other countries the number of incidents is significantly lower. Because it's no big deal. The more you separate or remove the more people are tempted. We shower and share berthing with people that are gay how is that any different. Society itself needs to change it's outlook on sex first before this could happen. I wish we could be more mature with about the situation and each others bodies but I agreed with integrated i think there would be less SAPR issues
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CMDCM Gene Treants
you seem to be on a Combat Ship and deployable. If married, would your wife support this idea? I know mine would not care, she trusts than I am mature, bit how about yours?
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PO3 (Join to see)
We actually had this discussion after my post, and after I thought we would get into a bit of a debate about it (needless to say that didn't happen) I thought the same thing, she would be against it but she agreed. That everybody has been raised since childhood to use separate bathrooms (male/female) and until that mind set changes berthings well probably stay the same.
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PO3 (Join to see)
FN Rurik Schutte no and why would I, just like I don't choose to shower with brothers, or strangers, but in the military you still all shower together. So Schutte would you shower with your brother?
I think you misunderstand willingness opposed to having too. Now I don't know what bootcamp you went to where you got to choose. But the military I'm in you don't really have a say in the matter.
I don't think anybody really wants to shower with anybody so you bring up somewhat of a Moo point on the question
I think you misunderstand willingness opposed to having too. Now I don't know what bootcamp you went to where you got to choose. But the military I'm in you don't really have a say in the matter.
I don't think anybody really wants to shower with anybody so you bring up somewhat of a Moo point on the question
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