Posted on Jun 30, 2014
Should the US Navy allow all berthing areas on Ship to be open to both genders?
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In the US Navy we have Traditionally Berthed enlisted personnel by Department and Division on Ships. With the introduction of Women on ships the Enlisted Berthing Areas have now been segregated into males being berthed by Department and Division and females into their separate areas. Officers live in Staterooms of 1, 2, or more officers and so the problem is much easier to handle.
To me this has always been strange because it breaks up work groups and separates people artificially. Sex between Sailors on the same ship has never been allowed, so that should not be a problem (right!) Now we have the added mixture of people being openly gay yet still assigned to the same berthing considerations.
BEQs at Shore Establishments have different rules based on availability of housing more than on gender. Is it time for a change or not?
To me this has always been strange because it breaks up work groups and separates people artificially. Sex between Sailors on the same ship has never been allowed, so that should not be a problem (right!) Now we have the added mixture of people being openly gay yet still assigned to the same berthing considerations.
BEQs at Shore Establishments have different rules based on availability of housing more than on gender. Is it time for a change or not?
Gender
Women in the Military
Boats
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 150
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I think it's a really jacked up idea, Chief. But then I think mixed gender ships are a jacked up idea also.
Point your browser to this link for some thoughts --> http://www.olgoat.com/substuff/dex84.htm
Point your browser to this link for some thoughts --> http://www.olgoat.com/substuff/dex84.htm
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CMDCM Gene Treants
Thanks for expressing your opinion Shipmate. Dex, as usual does make many valid points even if they were valid in the era he is writing about and not today.
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NO! no! No! nO! Never!! and Oh! did I mention NO!!!! COED ships have already created their own problems much less than would COED sleeping qtrs.
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If equality is the goal....how can you say that women and gays can "control themselves", but straight men cannot? That is NOT equality...might as well call straight men "blacks" and just reinstate segregation.
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I have been on two tender women have there on space leave well enough a long
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Nothing wrong with the arrangements now. Too many problems will come out of combining the berthings.
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Here is my concern. While we as a society say men and women are equal, we do not treat them as such under the law. For example, a male and female college student go to a bar, both have a few drinks, and go home. Society's initial thought is that he is a predictor, that his body takes more alcohol to reach the same level of inebriation as hers, and so on. If she says the next day she was raped, he basically goes to jail. If he says he was raped, she probably will not. If they BOTH say they were raped, he will probably go to jail and she will probably not.
Rape is something that is entirely on a person's word unless someone was videotaping it to record their saying "No!", and even that can be problematic (for example, did she SAY she wanted to play a role and then decide later to call it rape?)
California's "yes means yes" law is implicitly to deal with women being raped, not males (implicit assumption of difference), and the worry about college "rape culture" or our society at large having a "rape culture" is based on this as well.
Our laws DO NOT function as men and women being interchangeable.
Our society has not evolved to the point of, legally, treating both sexes as equal. A woman can simply say she was raped or harassed and it's automatically true unless the male can prove beyond doubt that it is not - which most can't since they don't go around videotaping their every moment.
More than that, in a Navy ship, birthing is a combination bedroom, locker room, bathroom, and shower. I've seen naked butt before with one of my bunk mates changing before going to PT or returning from. Could a female sailor have called that sexual harassment? Or pictures we've taken of ourselves in birthing. Could a female make an accusation that someone was snapping pics of her or harassing her?
There are many problems, part due to the unique living situation (again, imagine if you lived in a gym locker room), and part due to our legal/Justice system NOT treating men and women equally yet.
Even read these comments.
As long as our society assumes males are predators and females are victims, and leans towards taking women's word over men's when it comes to rape and sexual assault, this is not ONLY asking for trouble, it is a disservice to our make servicemembers (who WILL be accused of crimes) as well as our female servicemembers who might be subject to any crimes.
Rape is something that is entirely on a person's word unless someone was videotaping it to record their saying "No!", and even that can be problematic (for example, did she SAY she wanted to play a role and then decide later to call it rape?)
California's "yes means yes" law is implicitly to deal with women being raped, not males (implicit assumption of difference), and the worry about college "rape culture" or our society at large having a "rape culture" is based on this as well.
Our laws DO NOT function as men and women being interchangeable.
Our society has not evolved to the point of, legally, treating both sexes as equal. A woman can simply say she was raped or harassed and it's automatically true unless the male can prove beyond doubt that it is not - which most can't since they don't go around videotaping their every moment.
More than that, in a Navy ship, birthing is a combination bedroom, locker room, bathroom, and shower. I've seen naked butt before with one of my bunk mates changing before going to PT or returning from. Could a female sailor have called that sexual harassment? Or pictures we've taken of ourselves in birthing. Could a female make an accusation that someone was snapping pics of her or harassing her?
There are many problems, part due to the unique living situation (again, imagine if you lived in a gym locker room), and part due to our legal/Justice system NOT treating men and women equally yet.
Even read these comments.
As long as our society assumes males are predators and females are victims, and leans towards taking women's word over men's when it comes to rape and sexual assault, this is not ONLY asking for trouble, it is a disservice to our make servicemembers (who WILL be accused of crimes) as well as our female servicemembers who might be subject to any crimes.
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Honestly they should like tge amount of sapr cases we have now won't increase or decrease because of allow male and females to sleep in same berthing I mean we are now allowing females to join subs we all need to accept fact women in this day and age are just as tough as men so we all gotta get used to it. There are no male and female sailors we are all blue because if a casualties are to happy she might save your life because he rack is next to yours. You did it in boot camp why not out in the fleet??
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Everyone doesn't have the same intentions when it comes to men and woman being in the same work space so if you decide to put them in the same berthing knowing that majority of the time people don't have on the right clothing.. I know in both male and female berthings people walk around comfortably when their not in uniform which it's how it should be so if you decide to put them together a lot of people would be uncomfortable and you would hear a lot more sexual harassment or assault cases
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CMDCM Gene Treants
That seems to be a heck of a jump in logic from wearing sweats to sweating it. I am not saying it is impossible, or even improbable, but just taking off a uniform and putting on something to relax should not cause either sexual harassment or assault, should it?
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MSgt Sharon Mallory-Robinson
I would have to say that in some instances I do agree that there could be a problem. I have seen very young girls wearing barely anything, smiling and laughing at the catcalls, and then upset when a SNCO like myself tell them to put some clothes on! Not everyone who is 17-25 has common sense, or an idea of what could possibly happen when things go wrong. Dress codes would have to be enforced if we were to do this.
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They cannot be serious! So they have the idea of allowing men and women to sleep in the same berthing and go on the integrity of sexually active men and women will not engage in sexual activity!
Yea ok. I literally just retired 2 months ago after serving 20+ years. The population of men and women coming into the Navy today are very young
Yea ok. I literally just retired 2 months ago after serving 20+ years. The population of men and women coming into the Navy today are very young
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MSgt Sharon Mallory-Robinson
I think today's kids are very young compared to us. We were raised differently, thought differently, saw the world differently. I look at my 21 year old grandson and tell him something that should be obvious to him as a "not to be done", and he just shakes his head and says.."I want to do it. So I will." Repercussions are not considered, and common sense is rare. Those who are more mature, even at the same age, generally do not want anything to do with the "social butterflies".
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Honestly the single 20 year old male part of my mind says hell yes as it probably does with most at first, however the logically thinking part of my mind says that all the gross and horribly awesome shi* guys can do and talk about when its only guys around would go rite out the window and you'd probably see allot more men getting in trouble for the wrong ears overhearing conversations. How about we just allow people to have sex on the ship if they want? Telling adults they cant do adult things is kind of like that parent thats always mad at their kids when they do kid things.
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MSgt Sharon Mallory-Robinson
You would be surprised at the conversations that women have when there are no men around. They can get just as rude and disgusting. Sensitivities would have to change if they want to do this. The girls would become "one of the guys", and the guys would become "one of the girls". Should prove interesting.
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