Posted on Jun 30, 2014
Should the US Navy allow all berthing areas on Ship to be open to both genders?
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In the US Navy we have Traditionally Berthed enlisted personnel by Department and Division on Ships. With the introduction of Women on ships the Enlisted Berthing Areas have now been segregated into males being berthed by Department and Division and females into their separate areas. Officers live in Staterooms of 1, 2, or more officers and so the problem is much easier to handle.
To me this has always been strange because it breaks up work groups and separates people artificially. Sex between Sailors on the same ship has never been allowed, so that should not be a problem (right!) Now we have the added mixture of people being openly gay yet still assigned to the same berthing considerations.
BEQs at Shore Establishments have different rules based on availability of housing more than on gender. Is it time for a change or not?
To me this has always been strange because it breaks up work groups and separates people artificially. Sex between Sailors on the same ship has never been allowed, so that should not be a problem (right!) Now we have the added mixture of people being openly gay yet still assigned to the same berthing considerations.
BEQs at Shore Establishments have different rules based on availability of housing more than on gender. Is it time for a change or not?
Gender
Women in the Military
Boats
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 150
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Many universities now recognize up to six gender identities. And DoD will soon approve transgenderism for military service. No such thing as "both genders" now. I'd expect all heads/berthing to be unisex eventually.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
Although I understand where you are coming from Captain, I just have to remind you that Navy is VERY conservative and change happens SLOWLY. I know you have seen feet being dragged even in the Wardroom after orders were given to do the correct things. I agree that "eventually" we will see one berthing area for all and, believe it or not, that was the reason for this question.
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Speaking as someone who has spent some time in the E-1 - E-5 berthing, I can honestly say that the opposing sexes may not WANT to share a berthing... Some folks in those berthings are N.A.S.T.Y.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
Oh, I fully agree SSgt (Join to see). Some of the men and women in berthing in Navy (here it is E-1 through E-6) are not only NASTY, they are not fit for HUMAN company. Perhaps, just perhaps the presence of other gender humans might influence there nasty individuals to modify their behavior, perhaps.
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SSgt (Join to see)
CMDCM Gene Treants I can't remember if it was E-1 to E-5 or 6, lol. I get a little fuzzy on the details. I just remember it was the "Ops" berthing on the Essex.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
I understand, Navy does things a little differently. We have Top 3 while other services usually have Top 4 and it can get confusing, especially shipboard.
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During National Guard Annual Training in the field in a medical unit that I was in, we slept co-ed in a GP large tent. There were no problems. I think that when you have a large number of people in an open area it serves as a check. If you have 2, 3 or 4 opposite genders in a GP small that could be a little more problematic.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
I agree with your general concept LTC (Join to see). That just seems common sense to me, Sir.
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No!!! That is a terrible idea. Would you want your wife sleeping in a room full of men?
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CMDCM Gene Treants
You obviously give my wife no credit for being either an adult or a professional.
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This has to be a joke. The ship I was on was more of a "Days of Our Lives" then it was a M.A.S.H comedy. You had sailors getting flown off because they miraculously became the second coming of the Virgin Mary. Having sailors engage in intercourse at different part of the ship because they were bored and wanted something to do. There were even sex in berthing in the rack, now thats some athletic and acrobatic intimacy. Not to mention senior leadership having orgy with junior enlisted on port call. Sex will happen, it not a question of "if", but "when".
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CMDCM Gene Treants Most of the responds focus on the temptation. What about the people who are homosexual? Doesn't that fact just debunk the whole fear theory? Moreover, what about people who are bisexual?
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CMDCM Gene Treants
Are you saying that there might be gay sailors already serving on ships and seeing other people's bodies? Oh, no!
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CMDCM Gene Treants Once upon a time, there existed a fan room on a ship with only dudes being underway. One day, the sailors discovered some wool blankets and used condoms in the fan room.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
Shocked that someone had hidden a woman and no one knew it at all. (I am very naive.)
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Do they still teach the sexual discrimination course with the case study where the chief puts the female sailor in as the divisional secretary because the chief has no interest/idea what to do with that person? You know, the one where one of the lessons is the fact that the chief's gender is never mentioned, so most people presume that the chief must be male.
I ask because I see a LOT of prejudice here stating that the men are going to be the problem, but I have known more than one female sailor that believed that "grab a.." against a guy was perfectly acceptable.
I personally am against this initiative because, at least when I was in the military, sexual harassment was in the eye of the accuser. I don't disagree with that, but a mixed gender berthing means that someone can be harassing just by having their eyes pointed in the wrong place whether that is their intent or not. The regulations correctly lean in the direction of the accuser, but let's try and keep the inertia in favor of prevention, not prosecution.
I ask because I see a LOT of prejudice here stating that the men are going to be the problem, but I have known more than one female sailor that believed that "grab a.." against a guy was perfectly acceptable.
I personally am against this initiative because, at least when I was in the military, sexual harassment was in the eye of the accuser. I don't disagree with that, but a mixed gender berthing means that someone can be harassing just by having their eyes pointed in the wrong place whether that is their intent or not. The regulations correctly lean in the direction of the accuser, but let's try and keep the inertia in favor of prevention, not prosecution.
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