Posted on Jul 7, 2015
Capt Lance Gallardo
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mes.com/story/military/2015/07/07/kate-germano-fired-marine-corps-female-recruit-unit-commander/29763371/
Posted in these groups: B04bb539 Marines
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Responses: 11
Sgt Jay Jones
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I read the article with great interest. Personally, I don't see where the Officer did anything that any great Leader would not do! She went in assessed the situation and made the necessary changes, produced results.

Since when did the Marine Corps become touchy feely?

We are Marines, heck I guess my Drill Instructors should have been fired also.

I think she got railroaded!
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Cpl Ehr Specialist
Cpl (Join to see)
>1 y
As my former Co. GySgt. counseled me on more than one occasion, "Great Initiative, Bad Judgement"

I think that the Lt. Col. was attempting to make the changes she wanted too fast. Those kind of changes have to be taken in moderation as can be seen by the over-reaction of the command. I think if she had scaled back a touch and worked on improvements at a more scaled rate she would still have seen success and may be still in a position to influence continued success.
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Capt Jeff S.
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Edited >1 y ago
I can't follow that link you posted. nvm Figured out that it was militarytimes.com

Sounds like she was a tough cookie and simply holding the women to the same standards men are held to. Is there something wrong with that if women are expected to fill combat roles?
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Cpl Christopher Bishop
Cpl Christopher Bishop
>1 y
Ditto.
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SSgt Jim Rooth
SSgt Jim Rooth
>1 y
From what I understood from the article, the Lt. Col. might have made some poor choices but I saw no reason for such a drastic recourse such as firing. Having said that, her immediate CO had a much better prospective than this article provides. Even if there were personality clashes between the two officers, I find it really hard to believe that they would have been able to achieve their ranks or status without being able to overcome such clashes. Were there no counseling letters from the Col. to the Lt. Col. about these matters? Or was she thrown under the bus? I would be very surprised if that was the case. Then again, I am surprised that the Battalion Commander would berate a recruit...I always thought that was why she had Company Commanders and Drill Instructors. Perhaps one of those poor choices...
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SSgt Jeremy Eddy
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First off, for anyone interested, the proper link:
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/07/07/kate-germano-fired-marine-corps-female-recruit-unit-commander/29763371/

There wasn't anything in that article that would make me decide to fire the Lt. Col.

"...by publicly berating and showing contempt for subordinates, bullying Marines and singling them out for under-performance." With this reasoning, every drill instructor ever should have been fired from their job.

"Germano also "reinforced gender bias and stereotypes" in the minds of her Marines by telling them on several occasions that male Marines would not take orders from them and would see them as inferior if they could not meet men's physical standards, the investigation found." That's just telling the truth. I would also expand that to admit male Marines would not take orders from other male Marines if they could not meet the physical standards of the Marine Corps. 'Oh, you're 300lbs and collapse after running a mile and a half? No, I don't think I will follow you into battle; I'll lead instead.'

"A May 18 "request mast" memo submitted to Williams, the depot commander, shows that Germano believed these efforts were being undermined by her immediate superior, Recruit Training Regiment commander Col. Daniel Haas." Unfortunately, in my experience, a request mast pretty much ends your current billet, whether you were right or wrong.

Its a shame. It looks like she was genuinely making positive changes for both male and female recruits.
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Capt Jeff S.
Capt Jeff S.
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Cpl Elizabeth Koeneman
Cpl Elizabeth Koeneman
>1 y
My drill instructors told us basically the same thing. They were reinforcing that we should never use our gender as an excuse to not be just as good as the men. Of course, refusing to admit I was not as strong as the men in my shop caused me to permanently screw up my shoulder, but that was my fault for being stupid. (Lifting boxes full of gear that were supposed to be two-man lifts, but I was alone and needed something from the very bottom box, oops)
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SGT Gary Tob
SGT Gary Tob
5 y
What do people expect with the snow flake generation? I wonder what would happen these days if my DIs (Sgt. Lumpkin and Wade) were to throw Pvt1 Lane out the window (bunk included) for missing revelry for a week. 2nd story window at Ft. Ord 1969
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Should this Marine Commander have been fired?
Capt Lance Gallardo
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"The Parris Island command investigation and witness statements paint a portrait of Germano as a driven officer who could be abrasive and aggressive, and doggedly pursued the goal of unit improvement to the apparent alienation of at least some Marines in the command." Abrasive and Aggressive as a Marine Commander? Say it isnt so!

This sounds like the Nominee to be the next Commandant Lt. Gen. Robert Neller:
"All of a sudden, he felt Neller breathing in his ear. "How come you didn't go up the hill, captain?" Neller demanded. "You don't have the hair on your ass."" "Dill immediately reversed course, eventually reaching the hilltop despite sustaining a number of casualties involving Marines who had overindulged the night before. When the run ended, Neller flashed a grin.

"Good for you, captain," he said that morning in 1998. "You don't back down from a challenge.""
-http://www.militarytimes.com/.../spartan.../29610731/
Sounds like this female Marine Officer and (JAG? ) had "more hair on her ass" than a lot of her male counterparts and that is what is pissing off her Col.
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Capt Lance Gallardo
Capt Lance Gallardo
>1 y
I don't know about you all out there in Marine Corps World (current or Alumni), but anytime someone tried to take a dump on me in the Marine Corps or tried to tell me I could not hack it or I was soft, whatever the "challenge", that son-of-a-bitch that is always inside of me, would come out and it would piss me off to the point that i would respond to the challenge and it made me a better Marine. I am sure that someone must have challenged Lt. Col. Germano that women would never shoot as good as male Marines or live up to male Marine Corps standards, and that got her back up. The best scene in the movie GI Jane was when the Navy Seal Instructor tells the BUDS female candidate that nobody cares that she is a woman or whether she she passes or fails out of BUDS. Nobody cares if you Drop On Request ("DOR"). My staff platoon commander (an Arty Captain, Capt. Gallina) told me at OCS Junior Class in 1983 (PLC Candidates go for either two summer sessions of six weeks each in Quantico, VA Officer candidate School, or one 10 week Officer Candidate Class) "that he was going to make it his personal mission to get me to DOR." That made me pissed off and want to graduate even more than ever. I never quit on anything or dropped out of anything. I looked back at that and I think know that he saw I needed a little bit more motivation. i think like Col. Neeler (soon to be Commandant Neeler) in the above story, he wanted to see if I would take the challenge or shrink from it. This little story encapsulates everything the Marine Corps is about. Do you shrink from the challenge or take the challenge and become someone who will outwork, out hustle, and out maneuver the other guy? That is what the Marine Corps is always looking for. The guy or gal with a chip on her shoulder who will never quit and is always ready to meet a challenge.
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Capt Lance Gallardo
Capt Lance Gallardo
>1 y
Thanks Jeff. I think that little story about Col. Neeler and the Infantry Captain running his company, and not running his company up that hill (for whatever reason) so clearly says in one little anecdote what the Marine Corps is all about. Col. Neeler could have easily have called him a pussy or _____, anything to challenge him to push himself and his Marines. You KNOW that Captain's butt was chaffed good by that stinging remark, "You don’t have the hair on your ass." Fighting words to ANY Marine officer or enlisted. Plus he said this in a whisper so only the Captain would hear (never wanting to embarrass an Officer in front of his men). Col. Neeler knew exactly how any Marine Infantry Officer worth his salt would respond. Especially a young company commander. After that challenge, that company commander would have run up any hill even if cost him his entire company and he was the only Marine standing at the top. That is who we are. Or who we are supposed to be. That is who we are called to be, by the memory of great Marines that went in front of us like 1st Lt. Alexander Bonnyman, Jr. MOH Posthumously, and those other 35 Marines just found, still on Tarawa, still where they fought and died for the US and the Honor & legacy of the Marine Corps. During Gulf War I/Desert Shield in December 1990, while at TBS, we had some Chosin Reservoir Marines come and talk to us new lieutenants to help prepare us for war. They told us that what they were more scared than dying, of letting down the history of the Marine Corps and becoming the first Marine Division to be taking prisoner by an enemy force. So they fought their way out of the encirclement smashing some eight elite Chinese divisions in the process of making it to the coast and evacuation. Fourteen Marines, two Soldiers and one Navy pilot received the Medal of Honor. For my money, what those Marines & Soldiers at the Frozen Chosin did under horrific conditions, was and is the equivalent of ANY Marine Corps victory in combat, Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal, Belleau Wood, Okinawa, Falluja. And that is not taking anything away from any other Marine who survived or died in those other unbelievable Marine Corps victories. Those Chosin Marines were there to send us the message that instead of being afraid of dying, we should be afraid of letting down the memory of the Marines that went before us. Damn!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chosin_Reservoir
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CW5 Regimental Chief Warrant Officer
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Interesting that no one has yet pointed out what I believe was the root reason why she was pulled. The command climate was not one that supported the reporting of sexual assault which is the current political military focus next to suicides.
I think this is the nail in the coffin. That said, I will not speak on the other allegations since I am not in the USMC and do not know what the expectations there are.
There are rules and regulations and there is also culture. In the Army, she would have been relieved for what she did. The ends did not justify the means. We all know that in the Army, you counsel in private. The article references 1st time qual rates as one of her success statistics. That to me is unimportant. What matters is the final qual rate. Some people require more practice. From my foxhole, I improved in that category with time (so did my PT score). But again, I am Army and know little about USMC boot camp, follow on MOS training and sustainment training in regards to weapons and PT.
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Capt Jeff S.
Capt Jeff S.
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She simply wasn't PC enough to pass muster for the New Kinder Gentler Marine Corps.
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Capt Lance Gallardo
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Sorry about the defective link. I have not been on RP for a while so my posting sills have gotten rusty. I guess its another "perishable skill!"
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2ndLt Financial Management Resource Analyst
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Absolutely not.
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Sgt Jason Caldwell
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I don't see the problem with being hard on recruits. The enemy isn't going to cease fire because of our emotional needs. Boot Camp is the foundation of mental toughness needed in a combat zone. If we allow ourselves to become lacking in our fundamentals, the rest will follow suit and the Marine Corps will be found lacking on the battlefield. Our respected name will fade as will our edge.
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Cpl Jeff N.
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Edited >1 y ago
God forbid anyone enforce the standard on women Marines at Parris Island and hold them accountable when they fail. Demanding any more than the minimum standard seems to be unacceptable these days. I know when I was there the minimum standard was unacceptable. I am sure she rubbed some the wrong way and they found a way to undo her. The pack mentality survives. Go after the higher performer, trash them, get them out of the way so we can all get comfy again.

I hope she was abrasive, tough, demanding etc. She works at a Recruit Training Battalion not as a cruise ship party coordinator.

Maybe we should fire her boss.
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SGT Paul Mackay
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yes
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