Posted on Jun 22, 2015
Should US military bases named after Confederates be renamed?
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What do these US military bases have in common?
Fort Bragg
Fort Rucker
Fort Hood
Fort Lee
Fort Benning
Fort Gordon
Fort A.P. Hill
Fort Polk
Fort Pickett
Camp Beauregard (Operated by the Louisiana National Guard)
They are all named for Confederate generals. There’s been talk for years about whether this is appropriate, and now in wake of Charleston and the South Carolina Confederate flag, it’s coming up again.
Do you think these posts should be renamed to honor people who fought in the U.S. Army exclusively? Vote, and share your thoughts in the comments section below.
Take the Poll:
http://www.stripes.com/military-life/military-history/poll-should-us-military-bases-named-after-confederates-be-renamed-1.353890#
Fort Bragg
Fort Rucker
Fort Hood
Fort Lee
Fort Benning
Fort Gordon
Fort A.P. Hill
Fort Polk
Fort Pickett
Camp Beauregard (Operated by the Louisiana National Guard)
They are all named for Confederate generals. There’s been talk for years about whether this is appropriate, and now in wake of Charleston and the South Carolina Confederate flag, it’s coming up again.
Do you think these posts should be renamed to honor people who fought in the U.S. Army exclusively? Vote, and share your thoughts in the comments section below.
Take the Poll:
http://www.stripes.com/military-life/military-history/poll-should-us-military-bases-named-after-confederates-be-renamed-1.353890#
Posted in these groups: 
Confederate Flag
Confederate Flag
Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 282
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They were Americans, plain and simple. Most were outstanding generals who fought amazingly well given their lack of resources over the North. Whenever we erase the past to make it more in line with our current values, we allow fascism to creep in. Should we remove Jefferson from money because he owned slaves? History isn't pretty, and the people who make history, even our heroes, are rarely perfect. They exemplify that even flawed people can contribute extraordinary acts.
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PO1 Richard Mecom
SFC Alfonso Moore different times different views. Each fought for what they believed was the correct way of life. They did not betray the Union.
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SFC (Join to see)
PO1 Richard Mecom dude, this thread is four years old. This conversation was dead and over back when Barak Obama was president and most of the people in this thread aren’t even active members anymore
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PO1 Richard Mecom
SFC (Join to see) sorry it just showed up on mine. I do not understand why........
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CSM Curt Tipton
These gallant men took an oath when in the US Army to "support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic" as we all did. When the enemy of the Constitution was domestic as in 1861, they followed that oath as did my great-grandfather and his brothers. DEO VINDICE!
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PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM
PO2 (Join to see) - Traitor Army?? we are not talking about Nidal Hassan or Berghdal.. You need to read the history of each to understand what they went trough before they took off the blue to don the grey. The Confederate Army were mostly Farmers, their allegiance were to their GOD and to their Families. It was rare if they even heard about what the Government was doing.
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GySgt Gary Cordeiro
Define pussification first, secondly are inferring that since I don’t know what you are alluding to adds me to the genre that you so described?
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GySgt Gary Cordeiro
CMSgt Michael Thomas
Semi-correct, respect those that deserve respect, same goes for leaders; their position, if not the person.
Some did more than those that received the MOH and got something less instead; that is where the load of glorified chicken nugget (so called) leaders lose my respect as it should your respect also.
Semi-correct, respect those that deserve respect, same goes for leaders; their position, if not the person.
Some did more than those that received the MOH and got something less instead; that is where the load of glorified chicken nugget (so called) leaders lose my respect as it should your respect also.
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I think removing the Confederate Battle Flag from government facilities is appropriate...I do not agree with removing names of Confederate Generals from bases/installations.
Slowly wiping away the southern history will only create more disdain and contempt within the United States.
Slowly wiping away the southern history will only create more disdain and contempt within the United States.
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PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM
Capt Richard I P. - You need to re read your history, Slavery was not the monumental reason for the Civil War. You are a product of the liberal Education System. The main reason was state rights and the right to be able to sell and trade across state lines without having to pay tariff's to he federal government. Even back them the politicians were trying to suck the business owners dry by over taxation. You may be surprised to learn that the first slaves in America were brought into the northern ports, most were used as houseboys and butlers and other workers for the rich yanks. The first slave was bought by a free black man. Were you aware of that? Were you aware that before the war at one point there were more slaves up north than there were in the south. Way too much of this is not taught in schools because it does not fit the liberal agenda.
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GySgt Gary Cordeiro
Let bygones be bygones; however, if the history is falsified then scrutiny and correction is needed.
We have a town in Hawaii called Captain Cook. He and most of his crew was killed by the Native Hawaiians (Kanaka Maoli) His name remains but he doesn’t, the history books finally are telling the truth.
We have a town in Hawaii called Captain Cook. He and most of his crew was killed by the Native Hawaiians (Kanaka Maoli) His name remains but he doesn’t, the history books finally are telling the truth.
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GySgt Gary Cordeiro
MSG (Join to see)
I agree, maintain mission focus. The only luggage you carry is your combat load and ruck.
I agree, maintain mission focus. The only luggage you carry is your combat load and ruck.
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GySgt Gary Cordeiro
Capt Richard I P.
Never erase the TRUE history. It is a journal of lessons learned, hopefully.
Never erase the TRUE history. It is a journal of lessons learned, hopefully.
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Reading the comments here for me elicits a mixture of head-scratching and head shaking. First off, to those taking the greatest offense at these long-established Army installations named for famed Confederate Leaders, two of you - Capt Richard I P. and LCDR (Join to see) are not Army Officers, so your objections, gentlemen, are a moot point in this discussion. It would not be our place to weigh in on the names of ships or Naval and Marine Corps installations, it is not your place to weigh in on the names of our installations. As for CPT Justin Rose, nothing like this topic to bring out that stellar elitist New England attitude of yours!
If you've devoted any time to a study of any of these Confederate Leaders, resigning from the Union Army at the time of secession was the most heart-rending and personally difficult moral dilemma most of them had ever faced in their lives. GEN Robert E. Lee, Commander of the Confederate States Army, was among the last to resign his commission. Prior to doing so, he had met in Washington with Secretary of War Stanton and President Lincoln who had offered him command of the Union Army. He prayed and anguished over his decision, still, he could not go against his native Virginia.
Another Virginian, GEN Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson, lived a relatively quiet life, teaching physics and artillery at VMI at the time of secession. A devout Christian, Jackson was outspoken in his community in his opposition to secession, as he feared what it would mean not just for the South, but for the nation as a whole. Still, when war came, he was a tenacious and unforgiving combat commander who's brilliance as a tactician are still studied to this day.
GEN John Bell Hood, a native Kentuckian, had already distinguished himself courageously on the plains of Texas, being wounded multiple times in the process in engagements with the ruthless Comanches that harassed and attacked settlers in that state. When the Civil War broke out, he climbed the ranks of the Confederate Army quickly, demonstrating a knack for independent command of ever-increasing levels of responsibility.
These are brief snapshots of just three Confederate Leaders for whom a current installation is named. I share this not to glorify them, but to provide a brief glimpse at what made them great, and therefore worthy of having an installation named for them. It is grossly unfair and patently absurd to pass judgement on these men and their actions of 150 years ago through the prism of the social constructs of today. To do so only invites the temptation to revise and rewrite our history and it's meaning to us today, which is not only foolish, but potentially lethal. 150 years ago, everyone in this nation, both North and South, held a far greater allegiance to their respective home states than they did to the federal government. This is why it was so very easy for career Union Soldiers from the South to resign from the Army and return home to Virginia or Texas, or whichever state they called home. This is also why it is patently too harsh to dismiss them as traitors and men without honor.
With the vast majority of it's installations located in the South, the Army, in the interest of forging positive relationships with it's neighboring civilian communities many years ago, recognized the PR value at the time of naming these installations for these legendary leaders. At the time, there was much opposition across the South to the presence of the large standing and professional Army that had become necessary for a 20th Century World Power. These names helped soften those sentiments, build that vital local support. To change these names now to merely satisfy to PC thought police of this era does none of us anything less than to eradicate another piece of our national story. Let these names remain!
If you've devoted any time to a study of any of these Confederate Leaders, resigning from the Union Army at the time of secession was the most heart-rending and personally difficult moral dilemma most of them had ever faced in their lives. GEN Robert E. Lee, Commander of the Confederate States Army, was among the last to resign his commission. Prior to doing so, he had met in Washington with Secretary of War Stanton and President Lincoln who had offered him command of the Union Army. He prayed and anguished over his decision, still, he could not go against his native Virginia.
Another Virginian, GEN Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson, lived a relatively quiet life, teaching physics and artillery at VMI at the time of secession. A devout Christian, Jackson was outspoken in his community in his opposition to secession, as he feared what it would mean not just for the South, but for the nation as a whole. Still, when war came, he was a tenacious and unforgiving combat commander who's brilliance as a tactician are still studied to this day.
GEN John Bell Hood, a native Kentuckian, had already distinguished himself courageously on the plains of Texas, being wounded multiple times in the process in engagements with the ruthless Comanches that harassed and attacked settlers in that state. When the Civil War broke out, he climbed the ranks of the Confederate Army quickly, demonstrating a knack for independent command of ever-increasing levels of responsibility.
These are brief snapshots of just three Confederate Leaders for whom a current installation is named. I share this not to glorify them, but to provide a brief glimpse at what made them great, and therefore worthy of having an installation named for them. It is grossly unfair and patently absurd to pass judgement on these men and their actions of 150 years ago through the prism of the social constructs of today. To do so only invites the temptation to revise and rewrite our history and it's meaning to us today, which is not only foolish, but potentially lethal. 150 years ago, everyone in this nation, both North and South, held a far greater allegiance to their respective home states than they did to the federal government. This is why it was so very easy for career Union Soldiers from the South to resign from the Army and return home to Virginia or Texas, or whichever state they called home. This is also why it is patently too harsh to dismiss them as traitors and men without honor.
With the vast majority of it's installations located in the South, the Army, in the interest of forging positive relationships with it's neighboring civilian communities many years ago, recognized the PR value at the time of naming these installations for these legendary leaders. At the time, there was much opposition across the South to the presence of the large standing and professional Army that had become necessary for a 20th Century World Power. These names helped soften those sentiments, build that vital local support. To change these names now to merely satisfy to PC thought police of this era does none of us anything less than to eradicate another piece of our national story. Let these names remain!
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CSM (Join to see)
"It is grossly unfair and patently absurd to pass judgement on these men and their actions of 150 years ago through the prism of the social constructs of today."
I'm pretty sure they were considered traitors 150 years ago, too. That's why any insurgents educated at West Point; who resigned their U.S. commissions; or who attained a rank higher than colonel, were excluded from the post-war general amnesty and pardon. They had to apply to the President to have their citizenship reinstated.
I'm pretty sure they were considered traitors 150 years ago, too. That's why any insurgents educated at West Point; who resigned their U.S. commissions; or who attained a rank higher than colonel, were excluded from the post-war general amnesty and pardon. They had to apply to the President to have their citizenship reinstated.
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CSM William Payne
My great grandfather and two of his brothers fought for the Confederacy during the Civil War. They were from northern Georgia just outside of Chickamauga, an area that was devastated during the war. One of the brothers died in Virginia. They were farmers and carpenters, with no records of owning any slaves.
There can be no doubt that the primary reason of the war was over states rights, the right of the states to continue slavery. But the number of southerners that served in the Confederate Army is estimated at around a million Soldiers. Most of these had never served in the military and had never sworn an alligience to the United States. This was a time when state's rights were still considered sacrosanct.
So to say that those million Soldiers left their homes and families to save slavery and the lifestyles of plantation owners is naive at best and ludicrous at worse.
With few exceptions the war was propogated on Southern soil and in these people's back yards.
There was no social media back in the day, but people could see what was happening around them. What they saw was an incursion by what they saw was an over reaching central government, a president that was abusing the powers granted him by the Constitution, accompanied by an invasion by the Army that was supposed to protect them.
They were fighting to protect THEIR homes and THEIR families and THEIR way of life.
There can be no doubt that the primary reason of the war was over states rights, the right of the states to continue slavery. But the number of southerners that served in the Confederate Army is estimated at around a million Soldiers. Most of these had never served in the military and had never sworn an alligience to the United States. This was a time when state's rights were still considered sacrosanct.
So to say that those million Soldiers left their homes and families to save slavery and the lifestyles of plantation owners is naive at best and ludicrous at worse.
With few exceptions the war was propogated on Southern soil and in these people's back yards.
There was no social media back in the day, but people could see what was happening around them. What they saw was an incursion by what they saw was an over reaching central government, a president that was abusing the powers granted him by the Constitution, accompanied by an invasion by the Army that was supposed to protect them.
They were fighting to protect THEIR homes and THEIR families and THEIR way of life.
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SGT Jim Arnold
1LT Jasper Johnson - Sir. No, they fought and died for what they believed in. The Confederacy may have lost the war but not their spirit or backbone
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CSM William Payne
My Great Grandfather's grandfather, a veteran of the War of 1812, live with them until his passing in 1851.
His father was a veteran of the American Revolution. I submit to you that they were just answering the clarion for the defense of their homelands, much like their forefathers did before them.
How would the history books judge those "Patriots" if we had lost the American Revolution?
It's easy to be judgmental; coulda, woulda, shoulda, from our lofty, righteous perches separated by 150 years of history.
My family was made of pioneers and whenever civilization caught up with them, they continued moving west, from Virginia to Tennessee, to northwestern Georgia. After the Civil War, they moved to western Arkansas, then continued on into Indian Territory (Oklahoma) and eventually to Kansas, for that generation.
I'm sure they didn't give a damn about the politics of the day. The War came to them.
Hindsight is always 20/20.
His father was a veteran of the American Revolution. I submit to you that they were just answering the clarion for the defense of their homelands, much like their forefathers did before them.
How would the history books judge those "Patriots" if we had lost the American Revolution?
It's easy to be judgmental; coulda, woulda, shoulda, from our lofty, righteous perches separated by 150 years of history.
My family was made of pioneers and whenever civilization caught up with them, they continued moving west, from Virginia to Tennessee, to northwestern Georgia. After the Civil War, they moved to western Arkansas, then continued on into Indian Territory (Oklahoma) and eventually to Kansas, for that generation.
I'm sure they didn't give a damn about the politics of the day. The War came to them.
Hindsight is always 20/20.
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"With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations."
Abraham Lincoln
Second Inaugural Address
Saturday, March 4, 1865
If President Lincoln could forgive them in order to bind up the nation's wounds, is it really too great a task for us to do so a century and a half later?
Let it go. Keep the names of valiant soldiers of the late unpleasantness between the states.
Abraham Lincoln
Second Inaugural Address
Saturday, March 4, 1865
If President Lincoln could forgive them in order to bind up the nation's wounds, is it really too great a task for us to do so a century and a half later?
Let it go. Keep the names of valiant soldiers of the late unpleasantness between the states.
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SSG Joseph Dowell
Capt. Waddell, I have to agree with you here, President Lincoln showed graciousness to the loosing side of a very bloody conflict, in order to heal the nation. This should have been the end of the discussion. However, because it has been asked I would have to say that on the practical side to change the name of every Ship, Plane or Army base that was named after a confederate soldier (General) would be a waste of taxpayer dollars that can be spent for better purposes.
Here in San Diego there is a push to change the name of Gen. Robert E Lee middle school because of his involvement in the civil war, without considering that Lee had made many contributions to education both before and after the civil war and just for that he should be honored.
The other point that I would like to make is that when we take the oath of enlistment we swear to defend the constitution and country from "ALL enemies BOTH foreign and DOMESTIC." If those that served in the Confederate army felt that all political and legal recourse had been exhausted, to protect their perceived rights, then they were well within their rights to do what they did. This is something that we forget in these debates, just because they were on the loosing side.
Here in San Diego there is a push to change the name of Gen. Robert E Lee middle school because of his involvement in the civil war, without considering that Lee had made many contributions to education both before and after the civil war and just for that he should be honored.
The other point that I would like to make is that when we take the oath of enlistment we swear to defend the constitution and country from "ALL enemies BOTH foreign and DOMESTIC." If those that served in the Confederate army felt that all political and legal recourse had been exhausted, to protect their perceived rights, then they were well within their rights to do what they did. This is something that we forget in these debates, just because they were on the loosing side.
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LTC Tom Jones
When he (A.Lincoln) heard "the news about the fall," folks thought he'd call for a great "military ball." Instead, he asked the band to play the song, "Dixie" for "Johnny Reb and all that he believed (for he fought all the way, Johnny Reb, Johnny Reb...you fought all the way, Johnny Reb." At least that is the story Johnny Horton tells us; which, makes sense and is consistent with Lincoln's mind set as Seid has reminded us. Thank you, Capt Waddell.
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Capt Seid Waddell
LTC Tom Jones, we would all do well to be guided by Lincoln's kindness, wisdom, and self-restraint in victory.
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1LT William Clardy
Maj Richard "Ernie" Rowlette, I'm feeling a bit like a broken record here, but it is important to remember that the oath taken by pre-Civil War officers did *not* even *mention* the Constitution of the United States.
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Capt Richard I P.
1LT William Clardy Excellent argument, and the only one so far I've heard that's given me any pause. Apparently RallyPoint is currently not notifying me when I get tagged, so I only just saw this. I'd like to address it in more depth on your post.
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Capt Richard I P.
Maj Richard "Ernie" Rowlette Sir, you are correct that I was previously (and mistakenly) using the current oath, 1LT William Clardy made an excellent point (which I addressed down on his point) that changed the conversation (as it should) so I didn't address yours here. To address yours directly: If these men had sworn the oath we do today and taken the action they did holding they were defending the constitution from domestic enemies, they would be observably wrong, as there had been no action at the time of their defection from the union that indicated enmity by the union toward the constitution. It is a far better argument to focus on the ambiguities of the oath they really did take, so I've re-oriented to that one, and my response on that is under 1LT William Clardy's post below.
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1LT William Clardy
Maj Richard "Ernie" Rowlette, during the time that South Carolina was laying siege to Fort Sumter, there was no blockade in place. The most aggressive Union naval actions were the attempts to get supplies to the besieged fort without getting into a lopsided shooting match with the South Carolina artillery covering surrounding water.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
COL Jean (John) F. B. I agree totally 100%. Political correctness is going to destroy the United States. I wish that there was a great way to tell the PC crowd to GFY and make it stick
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I believe that they should stay the same. They were genius military leaders regardless if they were confederate generals.
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MAJ (Join to see)
Maj Richard "Ernie" Rowlette, with all due respect, I have engaged in several debates with Capt Richard I P. during my time here on RP, and you can take it from me: this gentleman is the furthest depiction of "excessively emotional" that you are likely to encounter on here. Capt Porter always remains on point and refrains from name-calling or other such petulant misconduct. You are debating with a man of principle and integrity here; consider yourself lucky.
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CW3 Kevin Storm
I see no problem with renaming those bases after MOH winners rather than those who supported tyranny and oppression by taking arms up against their nation, to support slavery.
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PO2 Johnathan Kerns
Hey if we're all for naming military installations after brilliant military tacticians, we may as well name one after Edwin Rommel....guy was a genius. Nevermind the fact that he fought on the side of Nazi's.
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As a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans I believe not only that the honor and memory of confederate veterans be cherished but also that the integrity of their livelihoods be remembered. Today's society gets all too wrapped up with who's who in the zoo as quite honestly I say why does it matter. The civil war happened, the south existed, and tragedies occurred across our country during that time and still do to this day. By pretending it wasn't there we are not going to make it go away, but by slowly wiping it's symbols and history away the entirety will be forgotten even the good to come of it. President regean said "Freedom is never more than one generation from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for protected and honored for them to do the same." although the reasons why confederates fought are not applicable today the fact that they fought is. The union fought died and won for the rights that are given to all Americans today regardless of race because ultimately no one person is more intitled to something due to the color of skin. But southerners fought and died for the cause that they found worth dying for, the same as most you and I the protection of their homeland and the sanctity of their livelihood. I do not agree with changing/relabeling/wiping away the past. Because in all actuallity it is nothing more than an action of appeasement. Who cares if it's named after a confederate general, I could make the same argument for the Washington redskins, or the town of Lynchburg, Tn, or even the term haji. I bet the descendants of his family take pride in it and I bet you would too.
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CW3 Kevin Storm
As a decedent of a Union Soldier, why do you insist on holding on to something that believed in the subjugation of a race of people? What comes next: Sons of the Nazi, Kin of the Kaiser, Decedents of the Rising Sun? Between the Klan, the Flag and its meaning of oppression to so many why oh why would you wish to hold unto it?
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SGT (Join to see)
Sir, although I understand your opinion and respect it as a universal debate that the confederacy was a nation who fought to keep others inslaved. That is not the only reason why confederate soldiers chose to take up arms. The southern states chose to secede for a number of reasons, the only reason the country was plunged into war was when that secession was combined with northern desire to preserve the union. Although I am a member of the SCV I as well am a lineal descendant of enlisted men of the American Revolution. The southern states is the geographical and personality derived area in which I identify most. I hold it's importance to me and it's impact on my family in high regard because the experiances of my ancestors have molded generations to come. I could assume that you hold your own heritage in high regard for similar reasons and are proud of the fact that your ancestor served on the side of the union. That is admirable, however every generation has things it is not proud of. A majority of confederate descendants are not proud of the fact their ancestors fought for what they believed was a right to own people as property. Your arguement could also be made against Christians for their ancestors deadly crusades agains the palistinians where slaves were also tortured, burned, beaten and killed. Or the union in the oppression of the Native Americans during the migration campaigns. Against the military of 10 years ago who were still outcasting homosexuality. What about the northern states that forcibly sterilized Hundreds if not thousands of mentally retarded patients due to the percieved psychosis. Yes I am a southerner, yes I disagree with the my ancestors that humans should be afforded equal rights as human not property. But no I will not be ashamed of my heritage not will I not be supportive of the memorialization and honor of it's history.
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SSG (Join to see)
I think people need to stop finding things to nit pick in America and focus on things other than people's feelings getting hurt. Especially in the Army where we are all brothers and sisters regardless of race, religion, heritage, and whatever else. Keep the customs you hold dear but we all salute this nations Stars and Stripes and that's what's important to me.
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PFC Pamala (Hall) Foster
I am surprised and amazed at the maturity WE as soldiers show. IF the candidates for President showed this level we do then I would be happy. Alot of us have history in the military back to the Revolution and Civil War. I am from the region of the John Brown Raid of 1859, in Harpers Ferry, then Virginia, now West Virginia. As a nation we grew, and with that so did our opinions and understandings.
I served Basic at Fort Jackson and Duty Station at Fort Bliss. A lot of my Brothers and Sisters in Arms were Southerners-and I consider myself not Northerner or Southerner, BUT AMERICAN!!!!!! That is the problem, people have forgotten that WE ARE AMERICANS first and foremost, the labelling has got to cease if we are to live as a Nation of Diversity. Renaming bases, OH NO YOU DON'T-that is erasing History and when that occurs, you are bound to repeat the mistakes of the past, creating WORST and dire consequences for not one but all-in our nation and perhaps world.
I served Basic at Fort Jackson and Duty Station at Fort Bliss. A lot of my Brothers and Sisters in Arms were Southerners-and I consider myself not Northerner or Southerner, BUT AMERICAN!!!!!! That is the problem, people have forgotten that WE ARE AMERICANS first and foremost, the labelling has got to cease if we are to live as a Nation of Diversity. Renaming bases, OH NO YOU DON'T-that is erasing History and when that occurs, you are bound to repeat the mistakes of the past, creating WORST and dire consequences for not one but all-in our nation and perhaps world.
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