Posted on Dec 2, 2014
TSgt Jackie Jones
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Military court
In most states, the Court is recognizing Veterans that have committed a crime and offering a different type of program to them. (In line with the probation that they may already be granted). How do the masses feel about it?

I understand the specialized need for treatment for certain Veterans and that everyone should be treated as an individual, on a case by case basis, which I hope is how this would be carried out by all, but for those with significant criminal histories, should they get the specialized options?
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MSgt Electrical Power Production
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It depends on the circumstances but I do believe veterans courts are beneficial. Vets with mental illness or PTSD may not really comprehend the seriousness of their crimes. They really need to be understood and helped. And we can't just treat everyone the same. Because some people just indiscriminately, intentionally with no remorse commit crimes against property and persons. They know what they have done planned it and carried it out. Those are individuals that do not deserve reasonable doubt.
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SSgt Forensic Meteorological Consultant
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Exactly, because what do we want, homeless vets? And additionally if they own up they are not on the streets committing more crimes and perhaps one of us or someone else in the world. It baffles me that we would consider just letting people become hopeless and that includes civilians.
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SSgt Forensic Meteorological Consultant
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MSgt (Join to see) I think too often that people forget compassion when dealing with 'crime', 'no tolerance policies' and these kinds of Interventions. It is one thing to say that one has no tolerance and another to say that anything goes and there are no consequences to what people do. The bottom-line is that we can talk tough regarding crime and then what? Can't get a job, ever? We have to be smart otherwise we are created some major unintended circumstances that we cannot fix.
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SFC Boots Attaway
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If a veteran does have PTSD or some other mitigating condition then that should be taken into account and the vet get the proper treatment. A good example would be a vet with PTSD and a problem in crowds gets bumped hard and goes off. That would be a mitigating circumstance to me.
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SPC Leisel Luman
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Continued... City judge barely thumbed through the documents. The little Podunk city got thousands of dollars into the city coffers and I got labeled for life. My license was suspend for 6 months. I chose not to get my license back because of fear of being pulled over with my daughter in the car. My closest family is 7 hours away and that would put my kid in child protective services nightmare. My dad said that city has such a history of corruption that they all should be put under the jail. To answer your question yes vets need help but not because we are SPECIAL. A veteran legal representative may have been able to see that I was it least treated fairly. Think about what that label would do to your life, your career, your volunteer opportunities. I have to stop here before I go into all the things that would get me Baker Acted.
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Capt Richard I P.
Capt Richard I P.
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SPC Leisel Luman sounds like you got a raw deal and have tried several avenues. The story seems pretty shocking, maybe the media would be interested?
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SSgt Forensic Meteorological Consultant
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SPC Leisel Luman Another problem is that too many no-tolerance policies are well intended but not very well though-out. The result is a needless nightmare and a stigma. You deserve better and will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.
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1LT David Moeglein
1LT David Moeglein
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SPC Leisel Luman, your experience with the legal authorities is maddening. I'm so sorry you had to go through what you did. One of the things that I enjoy doing most is advocating for my clients. I love writing letters to the court for my clients. It sounds as if you have a good case for appeal. Are there any pro bono attorneys where you live? I'd bet that you'd be able to find one to represent you. When the city judge is up for election, you could be a formidable adversary fighting for their opponent's campaign.
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SPC Leisel Luman
SPC Leisel Luman
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1LT David Moeglein keep up the good work. Vets helping vets is much needed. The fact that you use your knowledge and skill to help vets is extreamly valuable. I did not live in the state where this was done. I only shared because my openion comes from a different frame of reference.
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SPC Matthew Farnsworth
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If a person has a significant criminal history no they should not receive special consideration. A SM who made a mistake should (depending on the charge) receive special consideration depending on the circumstances.
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SPC Leisel Luman
SPC Leisel Luman
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SPC Matthew Farnsworth,
I agree with you mostly but read what happened to me. I would agree with you 100% if this had not happened to me. I posted my experience on this thread.
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PO3 Rod Arnold
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I believe that it should be considered. PTSD, Depression, Self treatment, these can all lead to actions that can be criminal.
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SCPO Rick Decker
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As a retried veteran and criminal defense attorney, I can tell you that Veteran Courts do make a difference in allowing for individual treatment of veteran defendants. Even in courts that do not offer veteran deferral programs, I often raise the issue of the effects of war, combat, and the everyday stress of military service during allocution at sentencing. Many judges seek to understand the background of a person and exercise discretion during sentencing after they understand the person's history. I recently had a Viet Nam veteran with a 40-year history of law enforcement contact from '67 to '07, I showed that in '07 he finally made contact with the VA and started getting treatment for his PTSD. 7 years later, the doctors changed his drug protocol and it resulted in a charge - this judge routinely gives the maximum sentence with that kind of criminal history - this case results in 14 days of jail time rather than a year, because I was able to bring the history into play. I believe that in many cases, a referral to Veteran's Court is appropriate and I believe that veterans have earned at least some consideration.
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CW3 Eddy Vleugels
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I would say that it should be handled on a case by case basis; I do not believe that there should be a double standard just because an individual served. Case in point: Should Timothy McVey have received leniency in his sentencing for the OK City bombing just because he served? Should Pvt Manning receive special dispensation for having leaked national security information, just because he served. I hope everyone agrees that the answer should definitely be NO!
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TSgt Jackie Jones
TSgt Jackie Jones
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Case by case and individuals is the way it would be treated here- and those guys wouldn't get a No, they'd get a HELL NO. Off the record of course.

I also believe their crimes would be on the excluded list for eligibility.
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TSgt Jackie Jones
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No one here is getting a free pass based on their Veterans status. Veterans Court, like a Drug Court, is intended to help individuals that have been in trouble with the law that need and want it. Each Veterans Court is different. Some exclude certain crimes, some exclude certain discharge statuses. But overall, it is a bit of special treatment- if they are successful, most offenses are wiped from the record like they never happened. Joe Civilian may not have that option with a matching offense. I would call that a bit of special treatment- not that I am opposed to it since it includes ALOT of hard work from the defendant/veteran.
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SSG(P) Dock Manager
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This got me thinking, and contradicting myself too. If a soldier committed a crime they ought to be held to a higher standard, therefore a slightly more strict sentence (instead of 5-8 months in jail, civilians get 5 and we get 7-8). But if they acted put from PTSD, proven by diagnosis or not, ought to be granted help services and maybe inpatient. Otherwise refusal is jail or fine, whatever it may be. I'm not too savvy on policies nor had experienced much. A buddy vet of mine was killed by another vet. Tried to blame PTSD or insanity, ruled as just being an idiot (really, he is stupid as crap). So he should have been given a worse sentence. We represent a lot through our actions, committing a crime ought not to be taken lightly.
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TSgt Jackie Jones
TSgt Jackie Jones
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I agree. It can go both ways!
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SFC Jeff Gurchinoff
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This article in not particularly informative as to the scope of inclusiveness into the Veterans Court program. This program is NOT intended for repeat violent offenders, nor is it "all inclusive." The program is a very selective system where the court and VA mental health professionals team up to provide more focused rehabilitation to veterans that (if left to serve out time in local jail systems like their civilian counterparts) would NOT receive proper rehabilitation or have the underlying causes of their problems addressed. It is administered by the Judge, all orders are handed down through the court and ANY violation of the imposed rules automatically terminates the veterans court program like any other probation violation and the offenders would then go directly to jail and not collect their $200. I would think if the article laid out the facts and administering guidelines of these programs (look them up they are all over the internet, by state) you would have less people thinking Veterans are getting some sort of free pass in the legal system just because they once or currently wear a uniform. That is NOT the case
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