Posted on Mar 1, 2015
Should you be considered a veteran of a particular campaign, if you have never actually been on the ground there?
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I have seen earlier discussion(s) about Vietnam Era Veterans vs. Vietnam Veterans. The later group being ones who actually served in the RVN combat theater of the operations (AOO), or (I assume) the area of responsibility (AOR). This includes ground forces in the AOO, and supporting forces in the (AOR).
The gray area, which always seems to be the area of confusion and often consternation, are those who support the AOO from outside of its boundaries and what type of support are they actually providing.
A few examples:
1. I served all over Iraq, and in Baghdad for 15 months during the Surge. As you know service members in Kuwait, Qatar and other places around the AOR, many of whom never entered Iraq, are (A) considered OIF campaign veterans, and (B) were entitled to the same pay benefits (CZTE - IDP) as we were. Serving in Baghdad, in places like Sadr City the like, I was as times frustrated that my peers on Qatar (who could even drink there) were getting the same benefits that we were. I think the only difference was they could not award combat awards and decorations.
* During a really bad time (week) during the surge, I got a photo from a buddy on email, who was on the 6 month CENTCOM rotation into Qatar, of him sitting in a Jacuzzi drinking a beer, in Qatar. I know they received CZTE, but not sure about IDP. But, they are OIF campaign veterans like me. That still bothers me. Yes, I know I need to let it go.
2. During Allied Force, USAF pilots were flying bombing missions from Aviano Italy into Kosovo and back in the same day. I don't think they qualified for any pay benefits aside from what they get normally, but there was a big "to do" when they tried to award combat medals to USAF personnel who never left Italy or EUCOM HQ (Stuttgart).
3. Today B2 Bombers fly from Missouri to current combat theaters and back in 24 hours... Are they OEF veterans? Should they be?
I am not saying only ground forces deserve credit, as I believe both those serving in the theater on ground, as well as those who provide direct support into or over the combat theater deserves the same campaign credit. Examples would be USN or USAF flying missions into the area, but returning to bases/carriers outside the AOO or even AOR. Blue water Navy providing support in the AOR etc. I suspect there are many I don't see or know about as a Soldier.
I am sure you have many examples, and I have my opinions, which are based on my experiences. I am interested in what you think, so I can broaden my perspective.
The gray area, which always seems to be the area of confusion and often consternation, are those who support the AOO from outside of its boundaries and what type of support are they actually providing.
A few examples:
1. I served all over Iraq, and in Baghdad for 15 months during the Surge. As you know service members in Kuwait, Qatar and other places around the AOR, many of whom never entered Iraq, are (A) considered OIF campaign veterans, and (B) were entitled to the same pay benefits (CZTE - IDP) as we were. Serving in Baghdad, in places like Sadr City the like, I was as times frustrated that my peers on Qatar (who could even drink there) were getting the same benefits that we were. I think the only difference was they could not award combat awards and decorations.
* During a really bad time (week) during the surge, I got a photo from a buddy on email, who was on the 6 month CENTCOM rotation into Qatar, of him sitting in a Jacuzzi drinking a beer, in Qatar. I know they received CZTE, but not sure about IDP. But, they are OIF campaign veterans like me. That still bothers me. Yes, I know I need to let it go.
2. During Allied Force, USAF pilots were flying bombing missions from Aviano Italy into Kosovo and back in the same day. I don't think they qualified for any pay benefits aside from what they get normally, but there was a big "to do" when they tried to award combat medals to USAF personnel who never left Italy or EUCOM HQ (Stuttgart).
3. Today B2 Bombers fly from Missouri to current combat theaters and back in 24 hours... Are they OEF veterans? Should they be?
I am not saying only ground forces deserve credit, as I believe both those serving in the theater on ground, as well as those who provide direct support into or over the combat theater deserves the same campaign credit. Examples would be USN or USAF flying missions into the area, but returning to bases/carriers outside the AOO or even AOR. Blue water Navy providing support in the AOR etc. I suspect there are many I don't see or know about as a Soldier.
I am sure you have many examples, and I have my opinions, which are based on my experiences. I am interested in what you think, so I can broaden my perspective.
Posted in these groups: 
Combat
Deployment
Combat Deployment
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 55
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My thoughts on the topic:
1. Honorable service of any type makes you a veteran.
2. Award of the NDSM makes you a veteran of that era(s).
3. Your question specifically--if you earned a campaign medal, you may rightfully claim to be a veteran of that campaign.
It gets stickier from here. The next level would be "combat veteran." In some cases badges and awards make that status obvious, e.g. Purple Heart Medal, CIB, Combat Action Medal, valor awards, etc. In others not so much. Is a B-2 pilot putting bombs on target flying from Missouri engaging in combat? Debatable.
The thrust of the debate is not what appears on your DD-214. The criteria for those entries are made at leadership levels that far exceed the pay grades 99% of us will ever achieve. What constitutes the AOR or imminent danger zones are sometimes liberally defined. That isn't the fault of rank and file folks that earn special pay or campaign awards.
What really matters--and is in the control of every veteran---is being honest and ethical about how one describes their service. So, if you earned an Iraqi Campaign medal, feel free to say so. On the other hand, if you never left Qatar, say that as well.
We don't get to choose where (or if) we deploy, so there is no shame in admitting bullets weren't flying over your head everyday. That said, integrity is a big part of being a service member or veteran. Folks involved in the "shooting war" everyday deserve their special recognition. The onus is on us as veterans to ensure that honor remains intact and never allow a misunderstanding that might grant us honors we didn't earn.
1. Honorable service of any type makes you a veteran.
2. Award of the NDSM makes you a veteran of that era(s).
3. Your question specifically--if you earned a campaign medal, you may rightfully claim to be a veteran of that campaign.
It gets stickier from here. The next level would be "combat veteran." In some cases badges and awards make that status obvious, e.g. Purple Heart Medal, CIB, Combat Action Medal, valor awards, etc. In others not so much. Is a B-2 pilot putting bombs on target flying from Missouri engaging in combat? Debatable.
The thrust of the debate is not what appears on your DD-214. The criteria for those entries are made at leadership levels that far exceed the pay grades 99% of us will ever achieve. What constitutes the AOR or imminent danger zones are sometimes liberally defined. That isn't the fault of rank and file folks that earn special pay or campaign awards.
What really matters--and is in the control of every veteran---is being honest and ethical about how one describes their service. So, if you earned an Iraqi Campaign medal, feel free to say so. On the other hand, if you never left Qatar, say that as well.
We don't get to choose where (or if) we deploy, so there is no shame in admitting bullets weren't flying over your head everyday. That said, integrity is a big part of being a service member or veteran. Folks involved in the "shooting war" everyday deserve their special recognition. The onus is on us as veterans to ensure that honor remains intact and never allow a misunderstanding that might grant us honors we didn't earn.
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SPC Larry Shahan
Well said!!! I often see people change their expression when I tell them my deployment was to Peru and not the sand box. They assume it doesn't count as a deployment bec it wasn't a combat zone. I was in a medevac unit and we were in Peru for a humanitarian mission. I volunteered for the sand box 3 times but something always came up and they wouldn't let me go. I feel so horrible that I didn't get to serve in that manor and even worse when my entire unit was deployed months after my discharge. However, not being in combat wasn't my decision. People look at me as less of a vet bec of my sevice but I'm proud in the role I played, no matter how limited.
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No. A Veteran is a Veteran. The only place the "era" matters is at the VA Hospital.
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SSG (Join to see)
Calm down National Guard cook, we know that your 3 month deployment to egypt must have been crazy
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SCPO Morris Ramsey
How about the ordnance team that loads the bomb on the B-52? How about the missile techs that arm the cruise missiles and the sailors that bring the ship to the launching site 1000 miles away from the target in Syria? Me - I say yes to all of the above. SGT (Join to see)
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SGT Mike Mann
I was a national Guard cook but did NOT deploy as a cook! My unit was full of people from all MOSs, we trained in Mississippi for three months as OOF (MOS immaterial) when I got to Iraq I was a gate guard for a while then DFAC Guard for a while. I was also a gun truck driver doing convoy security. I don’t have millions of miles outside the wire but I do have over 600! The active duty cooks, however, lived in the DFAC making sure the TCN cooks and the kitchen were clean and soldiers washed their hands before entering. No job is more important than any other job!
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SPC Larry Shahan
Being national guard or a cook makes him no less a vet then you. I believe that is part of the reason young soldiers lie about their service. They get tired of getting looked down on bec they didn't choose a combat MOS or didn't choose to do active duty. A colonel once told me "I can win a war with nothing but support but I wouldn't make it a month with nothing but infantryman". A national guard cook can be hit with an IED or ambush just as easy as any other job. Yes, I was POG and I'm proud of it. You should be proud of your sevice as well but I feel you can do so without putting others down for serving in a different capacity.
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Soldiers don't decide the area considered to be the combat zone, the pentagon does based on several criteria.
One can argue what is a combat veteran but not a campaign veteran, that's way above our pay grade.
This being said, the Green Zone was rocketed 444 times in the year I was in Iraq also during the surge, 2006 - 2007. Three were killed at the Palace when a round exploded in the trees.
The unit that replaced mine lost two when round hit the gym at Phoenix Base. There is a reason Soldiers are collecting hazardous duty pay. Tell the families of those above that were killed that they were not in the combat zone.
I had convoy teams that went outside the wire several times a week that were fortunate enough to have just a few minor injuries but the unit they replaced lost a hummer to an IED with a Soldier lost. The DEFAC at MNSTC-I was named after him.
Some of the units that took the highest casualties earlier in the war were transportation units moving supplies up from their base camps in Kuwait to FOBS in Iraq.
Not all risk is created equal; all give some and some give all.
One can argue what is a combat veteran but not a campaign veteran, that's way above our pay grade.
This being said, the Green Zone was rocketed 444 times in the year I was in Iraq also during the surge, 2006 - 2007. Three were killed at the Palace when a round exploded in the trees.
The unit that replaced mine lost two when round hit the gym at Phoenix Base. There is a reason Soldiers are collecting hazardous duty pay. Tell the families of those above that were killed that they were not in the combat zone.
I had convoy teams that went outside the wire several times a week that were fortunate enough to have just a few minor injuries but the unit they replaced lost a hummer to an IED with a Soldier lost. The DEFAC at MNSTC-I was named after him.
Some of the units that took the highest casualties earlier in the war were transportation units moving supplies up from their base camps in Kuwait to FOBS in Iraq.
Not all risk is created equal; all give some and some give all.
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CSM William Payne
COL Charles Williams - Roger that Sir. I've had this conversation many times. I especially enjoy just smiling when a young Soldier calls me a POG because even though I am 11B, I don't have a CIB. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
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