Posted on May 17, 2024
Since Beards are becoming more prevalent, is it time for the Army to authorize beards across the force?
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Social Media, especially Facebook are highlighting US Army NCOs sporting full beards. It is time to allow all soldiers to have a beard or no one to have a beard. This is being used as a DEI issue. It is not. It is an issue of having one standard. I am not questioning leader effectiveness, I am not questioning patriotism, I am not questioning devotion to duty. I am stating that to allow a beard based on religion is a violation of the First Amendment and the 14th Amendment.
A Soldier who is a Nordic Pagan a Muslim or a Sikh is allowed a beard. The choice to follow one of those faiths should not be more important to the Army than the choice to just want a beard. To want a beard because you want one is just as valid a reason to allow a beard as is devotion to a religion that a Soldier chose to adopt. There should be ONE standard. Either everyone can have a beard or no one can have a beard. No exceptions, or it becomes discrimination. If Special Operators kick ass with beards, and they are allowed to grow them when on deployment, then obviously having a beard does not make a Soldier sub-standard. Also, the argument about the Protective Mask is invalid, since no one in CONUS is under a Chemical agent threat, or promasks would be worn in garrison and no one deploys faster than it takes to shave, only people in Korea for example should be used for this excuse not to allow them. If the reason given is appearance in uniform, then I go back to my original statement.
Please do not try to make this a Race or Culture issue. It is not. It is an issue of standards, and one standard for everyone.
A Soldier who is a Nordic Pagan a Muslim or a Sikh is allowed a beard. The choice to follow one of those faiths should not be more important to the Army than the choice to just want a beard. To want a beard because you want one is just as valid a reason to allow a beard as is devotion to a religion that a Soldier chose to adopt. There should be ONE standard. Either everyone can have a beard or no one can have a beard. No exceptions, or it becomes discrimination. If Special Operators kick ass with beards, and they are allowed to grow them when on deployment, then obviously having a beard does not make a Soldier sub-standard. Also, the argument about the Protective Mask is invalid, since no one in CONUS is under a Chemical agent threat, or promasks would be worn in garrison and no one deploys faster than it takes to shave, only people in Korea for example should be used for this excuse not to allow them. If the reason given is appearance in uniform, then I go back to my original statement.
Please do not try to make this a Race or Culture issue. It is not. It is an issue of standards, and one standard for everyone.
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Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 24
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I have always believed in "one standard for all". I spent 22yrs, 4m, 18d (but who's counting) with no beard, it was the standard. All these who cry "religious", they knew the standard before they enlisted (there is no draft), so with that said: Come on Army "Sh!t or get off the pot". Either authorize a well groomed beard for everyone or none at all. Lots of other armies in the world allow them (I am not promoting beards) and do just fine. Like the argument stated above, make a proper decision. D.E.I. is crap.
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SGM Mikel Dawson
One comment on my comment. I will never put the uniform on again because I will not shave. I believe in standards, even when retired.
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Personally I don’t see a problem of having a well groomed beard if that is your preference. I believe the DOD should standardize it one way or the other. It is after all an all voluntary force and you know the regulations coming in.
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I agree 98%. That 2% lies in medical exemptions. We have folks with shaving profiles and they exist for a reason. (And yes, there is some controversy around that, as well, but that is a whole 'nother debate.)
If the standard is "some religions have to shave, some do not," then it is a violation of the 1st amendment. It is very cut and dry. It becomes even MORE problematic when you get folks like me. I am a Christian of my own denomination. I am not non-denominational (like the military likes to label me), I am in a denomination of one. My denomination STILL has rules, still has dogma. But because I am a denomination of one, what *my* denomination says about ANYTHING is irrelevant - they got to choose someone to speak for me. As such, my religious beliefs and rights could be trampled at will.
To be clear, I was OK with that. Well, I don't want to say "OK with that," per se, but I understood and accepted that as part of my military service. Just like my freedom of speech was necessarily curtailed - not eliminated, but curtailed - so, too, was my freedom of religion.
But the current standard of "some religions are freer than others" is no standard at all.
If the standard is "some religions have to shave, some do not," then it is a violation of the 1st amendment. It is very cut and dry. It becomes even MORE problematic when you get folks like me. I am a Christian of my own denomination. I am not non-denominational (like the military likes to label me), I am in a denomination of one. My denomination STILL has rules, still has dogma. But because I am a denomination of one, what *my* denomination says about ANYTHING is irrelevant - they got to choose someone to speak for me. As such, my religious beliefs and rights could be trampled at will.
To be clear, I was OK with that. Well, I don't want to say "OK with that," per se, but I understood and accepted that as part of my military service. Just like my freedom of speech was necessarily curtailed - not eliminated, but curtailed - so, too, was my freedom of religion.
But the current standard of "some religions are freer than others" is no standard at all.
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Now that I'm out, I sport a nice, well trimmed beard. But if I ever put my uniform on, the beard will come off. It's not a matter of fashion. It's a matter of respect for the service, its regulations, and the soldiers who are required to comply with them.
My understanding of the regulations pertaining to beards is that the ban on them came about during WWI. It was discovered that a beard could seriously interfere with the operation of a gas mask. So, while sailors were allowed to wear a beard (this was still allowed when my brother served in the navy in 1972-1984) soldiers and marines were forbidden to grow one.
Inasmuch as modern gas masks are as prone to this interference as the ones in WWI, it seems to me that operational readiness, in addition to uniformity of appearance would demand our chins, cheeks, and throats be clean shaven.
My understanding of the regulations pertaining to beards is that the ban on them came about during WWI. It was discovered that a beard could seriously interfere with the operation of a gas mask. So, while sailors were allowed to wear a beard (this was still allowed when my brother served in the navy in 1972-1984) soldiers and marines were forbidden to grow one.
Inasmuch as modern gas masks are as prone to this interference as the ones in WWI, it seems to me that operational readiness, in addition to uniformity of appearance would demand our chins, cheeks, and throats be clean shaven.
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The answer is no, in the past military allowed members to grow beards. But once the gas mask came out that all changed. Members with beards are not able to get a good seal like a person who has no beard. If you can't get a good seal on your gas mask because of your beard then the gas mask is useless. It needs to be straight across the board about no beards. I've seen where some member intentionally irritate their skin so bad, like dry shaving on the neck area, will irritate the skin so they can go to medical to try to get a no shave chit (profile in your case). Religion should not come into a decision making tool for growing a beard, once that is approved, then your blasting the door open for every other reason for them to do something and blame it on religion or culture and so on. This person's culture wears earrings so are you gonna allow because you allowed beard for religion, how can you dispute the earrings, or nose rings,,etc. I'm sure you get my point. For it to be fair it needs to be straight across the board for everyone, and the things to follow after you allow beards. The Military is starting to get soft in many ways, they volunteered to join the military, so they need to follow the rule of the Military. The Military is not an adult babysitting job, because of the member is to immature to grow up and do his job in defend our wonder and great nation. I hope the Military is not gonna start changing because of immature member throwing a tantrum and getting other member to follow to change the rule of the Military. Doc Gumm out
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SSG Roger Ayscue
Doc, you made my point. I say beards for all or beards for none. No religion or culture should rate over any other. There should be one standard for everyone. I can see this happening where SGT Mustaffa has a beard because he has a cultural accommodation writing up PFC Smith who forgot to shave. A blind man could see it a mile away. Allowing a double standard will just cause a military already weakened by the diluting of the single purpose and the placing of the individual over the unit.
By the way, Doc, NO GREATER LOVE EXISTS THAN GRUNT AND DOC. I am walking today, and have had a life because Doc Bill Byrd just did his job.
For those that don't know because no one ever shot at you, DOC is a title given in reverence, given out of love, given out of respect. NO greater title in the military than DOC.
By the way, Doc, NO GREATER LOVE EXISTS THAN GRUNT AND DOC. I am walking today, and have had a life because Doc Bill Byrd just did his job.
For those that don't know because no one ever shot at you, DOC is a title given in reverence, given out of love, given out of respect. NO greater title in the military than DOC.
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SFC Will Hallstead
This not true. I was told the same thing when I received my CPAP. Or seals just fine. What about specials ops soldiers they have beards!
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There was a Reserve Drill Sergeant, SFC type, in my Senior Leader Course in 2019 who said that "If there is an exception to policy, then why have a policy." Nations across the world allow beards. The US once allowed beards. To tell someone they can have a beard for religious and/or medical reasons is fine but in the same breath say they can't have a leadership role because of the beard. It makes no sense.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
Not doubting that, nor am I advocating for telling them that they can not have a beard. I am making the point that to authorize one Soldier to do anything, because of a cultural or religious reason, that is cause for punishment of another Soldier violates the law. It goes against established military principles in the United States such as "Worth's Battalion Orders". Use of culture or religion as a metric for policy violates the establishment clause of the First amendment and the equal protection clause of the 14th. If it is possible to call in one solder for refusing to shave and reduce him in rank for making the choice to not shave because he does not want to, but to not apply that standard equally because this Soldier refuses to shave because he does not want to because his belief in some or the other holy book or deity told him not to is a double standard. Both Soldiers refused to shave because they did not want to.
All I am advocating is that NO SOLDIER is special because of culture or religion, or ethnicity and no Soldier should be treated like they are special over any other Soldier. Make and enforce ONE Standard for all Soldiers.
All I am advocating is that NO SOLDIER is special because of culture or religion, or ethnicity and no Soldier should be treated like they are special over any other Soldier. Make and enforce ONE Standard for all Soldiers.
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SGM Jeff Mccloud
Exceptions to policy exist for exceptional cases.
In my experience, most ETPs submitted for most policies are not for exceptional cases, but rather for preference.
In my experience, most ETPs submitted for most policies are not for exceptional cases, but rather for preference.
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MSG (Join to see)
SGM Jeff Mccloud - which would nullify about 93% of the approved ETPs. Especially with what I personally saw in KSA, Kuwait and Honduras.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
SGM Jeff Mccloud - No matter what the "Reason" given, it is an excuse to have what they want, not to have to shave. I was in for 24 years, wanted a beard every day of it, shaved every day of it, because my reason was, I don't like shaving. My dislike of shaving is just as valid a reason as some other Soldier's adherence to and placing culture ahead of obedience to regulation.
So, if Big Army is going to allow one Soldier to have a beard because they want one, then let everyone have a beard because they want one. The reason given regarding protective masks is as invalid now as it was in 1982 when I joined the Army. No unit, unless already deployed is in danger enough of Gas attack that they cannot shave, or the Protective Mask would be a uniform requirement in CONUS offices everywhere.
This is an example of bowing to a "Protected Class" and the sociological experimentation in the Army and it is sickening. Allow beards for everyone or for no one. How can this harm anyone? Infact it may help in that it sets a same standard for everyone and does not draw a distinction between those eligible for special favors and those not.
So, if Big Army is going to allow one Soldier to have a beard because they want one, then let everyone have a beard because they want one. The reason given regarding protective masks is as invalid now as it was in 1982 when I joined the Army. No unit, unless already deployed is in danger enough of Gas attack that they cannot shave, or the Protective Mask would be a uniform requirement in CONUS offices everywhere.
This is an example of bowing to a "Protected Class" and the sociological experimentation in the Army and it is sickening. Allow beards for everyone or for no one. How can this harm anyone? Infact it may help in that it sets a same standard for everyone and does not draw a distinction between those eligible for special favors and those not.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
Right Colonel, that is what I am asking for...Uniformity. If one can have it then EVERYONE can have it, if everyone cannot do it, NO ONE should be allowed to.
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I spent ove 9 years and 35 federal all with the USAF
I believe that when you enlist or ? you agree to the UCMJ at the time of entering into active duty.
Your facial hair should be clean shaven and only medical reasons should be considered.
Its a disipline thing. The same as a uniform. STANDARDS are there to maintain disipline.
I believe that when you enlist or ? you agree to the UCMJ at the time of entering into active duty.
Your facial hair should be clean shaven and only medical reasons should be considered.
Its a disipline thing. The same as a uniform. STANDARDS are there to maintain disipline.
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No question. The standard should be adhered to until changed. Lack of enforcement is a direct reflection of our leadership and the organization.
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For years (30) I was told the beard issue revolved around the ability to maintain a mask seal.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
And for that amount of time, if I was in CONUS I wondered what the actual risk of a Gas Attack was in my Battalion Area at Fort BRAGG. Wheels up in 18 hours gave us plenty of time to shave. I learned to hate shaving in the field, in the winter, in Germany when I had to melt the ice in canteen to shave in ice cold water as an Infantryman, just to cover up that irritated skin with cammo paint so that no one would have known if we had shaved or not unless they looked really close. It was annoying and a total waste of time and water. I remember one morning that I got screamed at by a CSM while at Hohenfells Germany, for heating water to make a cup of coffee (it was 12 degrees that morning) before I shaved. With him standing there, I shaved using my coffee. I was pissed and he looked like a jack ass.
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