Posted on Apr 15, 2014
Since when is "jungle expert" an authorized tab?
67.7K
54
80
1
1
0
I'm seeing some Rangers here with that tab under their ranger tab. Unfortunately they walked off before I could engage them and ask. <div><br></div><div>The amount of tabs and right shoulder sleeve identifications that have been created at will over the last few years never ceases to amaze me. Is this authorized?</div><div><br></div><div>I'm not saying this as a jerk but rather a general discussion question. If we can create entirely new uniform items why not start creating our own uniforms in general. See what I'm saying?</div><div><br></div><div>Also it may actually allow commanders to do this but I'm missing it in the regulation. I certainly don't know everything so I might be missing it. </div>
Posted in these groups: 
Jungle Warfare School
Jungle Warfare School
Edited 11 y ago
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 32
0
0
0
They closed down JOTC in 1999, and recently re-opened it, with the first class graduating in March or April. There was an Army Times article about it if anyone cares to look it up. The tab is part of the deal.
(0)
(0)
SGT Richard H.
Found the article. Here's the excerpt on the tab:
Return of the tab
To motivate his soldiers, Fuller authorized the Jungle Expert tab for qualifying soldiers assigned to the 25th Infantry Division.
Unless it’s adopted by the Army, soldiers who earn the tab can only wear it while they’re assigned to the division.
But anyone else who passes the course will at least get the tab as a souvenir.
“Soldiers love to be recognized when they do something really hard successfully,” Fuller said. “This is a very difficult course to get through. It’s 21 days of living out of your rucksack in some of the worst terrain in the world. They deserve some kind of recognition for doing that.”
Soldiers love a good challenge, he added.
“Being put in a new environment and being challenged gives them some bragging rights. Soldiers who’ve got their Jungle Expert tab are strutting around pretty good.”
Return of the tab
To motivate his soldiers, Fuller authorized the Jungle Expert tab for qualifying soldiers assigned to the 25th Infantry Division.
Unless it’s adopted by the Army, soldiers who earn the tab can only wear it while they’re assigned to the division.
But anyone else who passes the course will at least get the tab as a souvenir.
“Soldiers love to be recognized when they do something really hard successfully,” Fuller said. “This is a very difficult course to get through. It’s 21 days of living out of your rucksack in some of the worst terrain in the world. They deserve some kind of recognition for doing that.”
Soldiers love a good challenge, he added.
“Being put in a new environment and being challenged gives them some bragging rights. Soldiers who’ve got their Jungle Expert tab are strutting around pretty good.”
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
There are only 4 tabs authorized for permanent wear:
1) Ranger
2) Speacial Forces
3) Sapper
4) President's 100
1) Ranger
2) Speacial Forces
3) Sapper
4) President's 100
(0)
(0)
Suspended Profile
I went through the course and wear it around. It is only authorized for wear around Oahu since it is still a 25th ID school. It was the CG's call.
0
0
0
It is a tab that was brought back into training in May. While on my 2 week drill this year I was in the PX and picked up the ARMY TIMES and on the cover was the jungle expert course that is back in phase now. I do not know all of the specifics but I know it is a course though
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
I graduated from JOTC in 1987 part of the 3/87 Infantry Regiment before it was disbanded after the Gulf War. I went over the Air Force and my local Security Forces Commanders comments went like this "hell yeah you can wear it you earned it" So I guess its up to your Commander. :) It would be amazing if they started up the School again and wanted instructors sometimes DOD Schools get Civilian training like here at Fairchild for the SERE School. I'd volunteer to teach!. Former JOTC Graduate D. Starr
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
THE ARMY JUST BOUGHT BACK JUNGLE SCHOOL AT YOUR BASE DUDE THATS WHY ITS A NEW THING JUST READ IT IN THE ARMY TIMES ITS A JOKKE - 70% PASSING RATE
http://www.armytimes.com/article/20140505/NEWS/305050061/Tropicaltraining
http://www.armytimes.com/article/20140505/NEWS/305050061/Tropicaltraining
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
SFC Swartz, here it is, direct from AR670-1:
22–12. Badges authorized for wear on Army uniforms
f. Tabs are authorized for wear on either a permanent or temporary basis.
(1) Permanent wear. Tabs indicating individual marksmanship or special skill are authorized for permanent wear.
The tabs authorized for permanent wear are: Sapper, Ranger, Special Forces, and President’s Hundred.
(2) Temporary wear. Other tabs are considered an integral part of the SSI and Soldiers are only authorized to wear them while assigned to the organization that prescribed wearing the SSI with the tab. Temporary tab examples include:
airborne, honor guard, mountain, and Pershing.
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
My MI guys were all about their "PowerPoint" tabs along with some of the other staff folks. Most of them felt the "suck" of the TOC justified it. ;)
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
You beat me to it SFC Jones. I was about to pose the same question. I guess it's one of those things where you can "add to" but not "take away". The two instances I've seen (arctic tabs in Alaska and jungle tabs in Hawaii) are only local command specific. I PCS'd to Ft. Hood and had to stow the arctic tab. Had to do the same when I went to ALC at Ft. Sam from Alaska. Even on TDY, I'm fairly certain that ranger shouldn't have been wearing the jungle tab.
Even so, I kind of like the identifying feature. The Army uniform seems to be all about standing out amongst your peers. Badges and tabs left and right!
Though in Alaska it served a more practical purpose. The tab producing course (Cold Weather Leaders Course) is designed for team and squad level leaders so that they can learn the arctic survival skills necessary to train in that environment and teach it to their soldiers. It allowed other soldiers (of any rank) to quickly identify SME's and fix issues with equipment and training methods before they lead to chilblain or frost bite or even over heating.
Even so, I kind of like the identifying feature. The Army uniform seems to be all about standing out amongst your peers. Badges and tabs left and right!
Though in Alaska it served a more practical purpose. The tab producing course (Cold Weather Leaders Course) is designed for team and squad level leaders so that they can learn the arctic survival skills necessary to train in that environment and teach it to their soldiers. It allowed other soldiers (of any rank) to quickly identify SME's and fix issues with equipment and training methods before they lead to chilblain or frost bite or even over heating.
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
The "jungle expert" tab is authorized to wear, by order of the CG, while assigned to 25th ID after successful completion of the Jungle Operations Training Course. Once the SM leaves the Lightning Division, they will have to remove the tab.
What other tabs are you talking about? This is the first one that I know about that has been authorized for wear by a local commander.
(0)
(0)
CW2 (Join to see)
The only one here I've seen sir. But I've seen the right pocket sleeve ones in the past that say EO, SHARP, etc. Is CBRN even an authorized sleeve patch?
(0)
(0)
SSG Genaro Negrete
Look up Northern Warfare Training Center in Alaska. Similar to the JOTC's set up, it's authorized for soldiers while assigned to USARAK. It's given to graduates of the Cold Weather Leader's Course. NWTC also does a military mountaineering course that awards the "E" skill identifier. A good, heated discussion around the school house was whether or not to award the mountain tab as a stand alone qualification tab. I'm a little disappointed that the JOTC jungle tab looks more purpose made than the arctic tab. haha.
(0)
(0)
SFC Boots Attaway
Just like the EIB EMB or jump wings I agree with you MSG. If they have the E SQI they should be authorized to wear the Ram's head.
(0)
(0)
SFC (Join to see)
SFC Jones,
To answer your question about CBRN- Yes, it is authorized, but the regs are very specific in when it can be worn... Similar to how an MP should normally only wear theirs when conducting duty in that capacity. There was a big shake-up with the newest version of 670-1, and I cannot cite the specifics.
To answer your question about CBRN- Yes, it is authorized, but the regs are very specific in when it can be worn... Similar to how an MP should normally only wear theirs when conducting duty in that capacity. There was a big shake-up with the newest version of 670-1, and I cannot cite the specifics.
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
IMO it's a similar situation to the Rams Head Badge worn by graduates of the AMWS, a NG school. Because of our proximity to the school we like to send soldiers when funding is available. When those graduates go back to their unit they are authorized to wear it (at least in our state), but when they go to the "big Army" schoolhouse for NCOES or on deployment it comes off.
http://www.benning.army.mil/infantry/amws/content/pdf/The%20History%20of%20the%20Rams%20Head%20Device.pdf
Unfortunately AR 670-1 doesn't directly address all forms of tab or brassard, and local commanders have to publish policies.
http://www.benning.army.mil/infantry/amws/content/pdf/The%20History%20of%20the%20Rams%20Head%20Device.pdf
Unfortunately AR 670-1 doesn't directly address all forms of tab or brassard, and local commanders have to publish policies.
(0)
(0)
SFC (Join to see)
I want to know when they are going to approve the rams head for big army. When I was in the VT Guard I attended AMWS and earned the rams head. Now that I'm active duty all I get is the constant question of what's the "E" sqi mean? I even had a S1 clerk say that someone messed up my ERB and put a SQI code on it that didn't exist.
(0)
(0)
SFC (Join to see)
SGT St Laurence,
The school is irrelevant because grunts don't fight in the mountains? SMH. It's laughable how the organization overlooks the ability to foster a more-capable soldier with diversified skills in the 21st century.
The school is irrelevant because grunts don't fight in the mountains? SMH. It's laughable how the organization overlooks the ability to foster a more-capable soldier with diversified skills in the 21st century.
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
1SG (Join to see)
I agree with your last statement. It makes no sense to have a regulation if units are going to do whatever they please.
(1)
(0)
(0)
(0)
SFC (Join to see)
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with either side of this conversation. I've had a similar conversation with my section sergeant multiple times and all he ever has to say about things like that is "commanders can add to but not take away" my question is, if your adding uniform changes who draws the line at what considered adding and what's taking away?
(0)
(0)
1SG (Join to see)
SFC (Join to see)
To answer your question normally you have a CSM and staff members advising the commander before making a decision like that. Also they take certain stuff in consideration, how it will benefit and effect the unit, will it raise the soldier's moral/cohesion and if its practical. These policy changes is only enforceable in the commanders AO, outside those areas soldiers must follow Army regulations.
To answer your question normally you have a CSM and staff members advising the commander before making a decision like that. Also they take certain stuff in consideration, how it will benefit and effect the unit, will it raise the soldier's moral/cohesion and if its practical. These policy changes is only enforceable in the commanders AO, outside those areas soldiers must follow Army regulations.
(0)
(0)
Read This Next
-
Ask questionGet expert advice and
tips for your questions. -
Post updatePost pictures, personal updates, plans, or anything you like!
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google 
