Posted on Nov 13, 2014
Student sues because of ROTC scholarship and religion denial
12.1K
76
60
3
3
0
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/iknoor-singh/sikh-army-rotc_b_6147686.html
Original post was merged and deleted; looking for your feedback and input concerning suing because you dont get your way. Seems like there is more to this story then what is being reported on.
Original post was merged and deleted; looking for your feedback and input concerning suing because you dont get your way. Seems like there is more to this story then what is being reported on.
Religion
Waivers
Lawsuit
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 19
16
16
0
"Don't go away angry, just GO AWAY!" We all want, how does it feel? I wanted an ROTC scholarship but I wasn't an ethnic minority. I wanted a school scholarship but I wasn't an athlete, what I got were student loans. Life is making choices not about if I can't have it I'll sue so I can have everything because I'm entitled to it.
(16)
(0)
(2)
(0)
MAJ (Join to see)
MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca A sad but true fact - my kids are half white and half Philippino. I always tell them that on any application for scholarships, check "pacific islander", not "caucasian", because your chances are better for getting it awarded. Had a friend in college who was white, but was from Africa and he wanted to check "african american" on the med school application to increase he chances for admission. Had to convince him that might not be a good idea.
(3)
(0)
MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca
I did hold back MSG Wade Huffman. Note, no 4-letter "colorful metaphors" were used. :-)
(2)
(0)
CPT (Join to see)
Sometimes you have to grin and bear a negative in order to receive a larger positive. Many grooming standards are in place not just for professionalism, but for good health and sanitation.
While I am for reasonable accommodation, there are other ways one can serve their country if their religion prevents them from serving in this capacity. Frankly, I find it odd that one would sue the very country they state they want to serve.
In regard to the discussion about race, credence, religion, and other associated groups in respect to hiring, scholarships, etc, I advocate taking all of that information off applications. To segment society into smaller and smaller groups, then enforce a quota for each group is simply too labor intensive. Additionally, the segmenting of society into groups tells us there are differences between everyone. It seems counter-intuitive. Award scholarships and employment based off one's achievements, values and morality, not one's birth.
While I am for reasonable accommodation, there are other ways one can serve their country if their religion prevents them from serving in this capacity. Frankly, I find it odd that one would sue the very country they state they want to serve.
In regard to the discussion about race, credence, religion, and other associated groups in respect to hiring, scholarships, etc, I advocate taking all of that information off applications. To segment society into smaller and smaller groups, then enforce a quota for each group is simply too labor intensive. Additionally, the segmenting of society into groups tells us there are differences between everyone. It seems counter-intuitive. Award scholarships and employment based off one's achievements, values and morality, not one's birth.
(1)
(0)
7
7
0
There are waivers for this. He also has a choice to join and follow the regulations or not to join. This feels like just another person who is trying to make a stink for publicity and money.
"I wanted to join my whole life" he says. For some reason though, you were unaware of the grooming standards? I want to grow a beard, but I will have to wait until I get out. I gave up many "wants" to be in the service.
I "want" to be with my wife for our first full year of marriage. Too bad my mission is to deploy to the Middle East before that can happen. I will go proudly because I am proud of this country.
I have respect for the Sikhs and welcome their warrior lifestyle to the military, but if you want to be a whiny little shit about some regulations, then are you really the type of person we want in the military?
"I wanted to join my whole life" he says. For some reason though, you were unaware of the grooming standards? I want to grow a beard, but I will have to wait until I get out. I gave up many "wants" to be in the service.
I "want" to be with my wife for our first full year of marriage. Too bad my mission is to deploy to the Middle East before that can happen. I will go proudly because I am proud of this country.
I have respect for the Sikhs and welcome their warrior lifestyle to the military, but if you want to be a whiny little shit about some regulations, then are you really the type of person we want in the military?
(7)
(0)
CMSgt James Nolan
Inserting humor: CPT Zachary Brooks Sir, am I to understand that you are requesting a waiver so that you can become a woman for a year? heh heh heh ( I said insert humor)
(2)
(0)
5
5
0
I agree with some here to think that perhaps the ROTC program there is unaware of the waivers available, as many Sikhs currently serve. Having said that, I find it unprofessional and unfortunate that many of you would bash someone for wanting to serve this country. To our knowledge, he hasn't asked for exemptions on anything other than grooming standards. Seems fairly straightforward to me. Grooming standards are not a bonafide job requirement. Should there be standards, yes. However there is room in this military for a little latitude to allow this country to harness ALL of the diverse talent it has to offer. Simply saying no is the easy wrong choice and sells us short from having the best, most talented and diverse military anywhere. If someone is willing to complete all of the required training with said grooming standards, then why not? We already issue shaving profiles, so if the Soldier is willing to train to standard, ie gas chamber etc than why not? The elephant in the room here is that many won't publicly admit that they don't like the way it looks, or equate turbans with terrorism. And that is the REAL issue.
(5)
(0)
CPO (Join to see)
I respectfully disagree. How, precisely are the Sikhs planning to don their Kevlar? There are very intelligent people here who are willing to have the discussion but I for one am unwilling to be called a bigot or racist simply because I disagree with someone.
(0)
(0)
COL (Join to see)
How does any female with long hair don their Kevlar? See earlier note - Sikhs are already serving in the Army. We aren't setting precedent.
(2)
(0)
3
3
0
There are religions that say any killing is wrong. I wonder if a Buddhist could join the Army with the requirement that he/she not have to harm any other person. Although I respect this person's desire to serve, the Army has requirements, just like his religion. He needs to decide which requirements he wants to adhere to.
(3)
(0)
CPT Steven Harder
I was born and raised Mennonite . . . I kept my religion a secret when I joined the Infantry. Of course I was shunned by my church . . . their loss, not mine. And yes, I would have done my job as trained. Both my brothers served in the Navy and then the Army . . . they didn't hide their religion, but served in Support MOS's. Many Mennonites served during WWII, always in support units.
(0)
(0)
3
3
0
I say let them talk all the S**t they want but what it boils down to is unwillingness to keep an open mind of such topics. Im not saying im right or wrong. But at least I keep an open mind. People are ignorant of change. Isn't that one thing soldiers are suppose to do, adapt to change? You cant blame them for their religion's culture. I get it. uniformity is key however current turbans i have seen are in fact ACU pattern, get over it already!! it might not be a patrol cap. at least its not some outrageous neon green and blue turban, it's ACU!!
(3)
(0)
3
3
0
I would like to see the basis of the denial given that they have approved similar requests.
(3)
(0)
CW4 (Join to see)
I agree; something is missing from this story. If you read the article, things do not add up.
(0)
(0)
CPT Zachary Brooks
CW4 (Join to see) its Huffington Post, I assume they have an angle for everything and they regularly leave items out to fit their story.
(0)
(0)
CW4 (Join to see)
you are right, it is the Huff. Not the greatest news source, yet it is a news source. I try to find a similar if not exact news story elsewhere when somethings peaks my interest a little. Compare the similarities and differences, somewhere in between is the truth. Like I typed in numerous other posts on this topic; things do not add up and this is not an expository piece by any means
(0)
(0)
3
3
0
You know I think this is one of those instances in which I believe, IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT SOMEONES RELIGION IS. As long as they don't betray me or my fellow soldiers. Let them keep their hair. What harm is it anyway?
(3)
(0)
SPC (Join to see)
Sir I think you are missing the point. And yes I am VERY well aware of what discrimination is. I will continue to convey my point. Discrimination is action that denies social participation or human rights to categories of people based on prejudice. With that, private employers may be able to get away with this. But dont forget the military is a federal employer. Denying someone employment due to grounds of them being obligated to wear certain things is uncalled for in federal employment. I saw a hindu LT wearing a red dot on her forehead. What is the difference? THERE IS NONE. AR 670-2 states that there shal be no visible markings(ie tats) below elbows, knees or above neckline. Yet they still allow the red dot to be on the forehead. why? there is no difference sir. which is why i have to respectfully vote down one of your previous comments.
(0)
(0)
CW4 (Join to see)
it is AR 670-1; know your regulations before you quote them. You can vote down anything you want, its a free world and voting down is one of the available options to you since you qualified to be a member of RallyPoint. If you were a radicalized, white supremacist who had multiple felonies, you wouldnt be a member of RP. If you didnt meet the minimum requirements, I am sure you could apply for a waiver.
The "dot" is actually called a Bindi, they are not a tattoo. A little more research would be helpful as a young E4 in the military. You seem to have drank the Kool-Aid as most new, young generation of people have in regards to discrimination. Its not your fault, it is a societal fault.
Your definition of discrimination from wikipedia is somewhat accurate. If you wish to educate yourself some more; research the legal definition of discrimination. Once you are done with that trivial task, research when discrimination is legal. Funny how the legal and law binding definitions are different from wikipedia.
If you need some help, here is good link to show where discrimination is legal. Same argument I gave you. Person isnt qualified, doesnt meet the requirements, discrimination is legal. I think you are stuck on the actual understanding of discrimination as it legally is as compared to how modern jargon has contorted it.
http://civilrights.findlaw.com/civil-rights-overview/what-is-discrimination.html
I will leave you with this simple question: How come a person with spina bifada is not eligible to join the military. If you need the regulations, its AR 601-210 at AR 40-501. Let me know if this would be considered discrimination....
The "dot" is actually called a Bindi, they are not a tattoo. A little more research would be helpful as a young E4 in the military. You seem to have drank the Kool-Aid as most new, young generation of people have in regards to discrimination. Its not your fault, it is a societal fault.
Your definition of discrimination from wikipedia is somewhat accurate. If you wish to educate yourself some more; research the legal definition of discrimination. Once you are done with that trivial task, research when discrimination is legal. Funny how the legal and law binding definitions are different from wikipedia.
If you need some help, here is good link to show where discrimination is legal. Same argument I gave you. Person isnt qualified, doesnt meet the requirements, discrimination is legal. I think you are stuck on the actual understanding of discrimination as it legally is as compared to how modern jargon has contorted it.
http://civilrights.findlaw.com/civil-rights-overview/what-is-discrimination.html
I will leave you with this simple question: How come a person with spina bifada is not eligible to join the military. If you need the regulations, its AR 601-210 at AR 40-501. Let me know if this would be considered discrimination....
What is Discrimination? - FindLaw
In plain English, to discriminate means to distinguish, single out, or make a distinction. In everyday life, when faced with more than one option, we discriminate
(0)
(0)
SPC (Join to see)
Thank you for your insight Chief. I will do that. However my stance on the topic remains unchanged.
(0)
(0)
CPO (Join to see)
well here is one issue that hasn't been brought up...how is it still a uniform if one of the pieces is not literally uniform with the others. Size, shape, color, sex, and other distinguishable marks are all contained within the uniform. Once you change the uniform you begin to change what it stands for.
(0)
(0)
2
2
0
The Army is not making anyone between the Army and their faith. They choose to make that decision of their own will, no one is forced to join...it's "All Volunteer". If you have any objections to grooming standards....no problem, there is the door, no recrutier will stop you from leaving and force anyone to join.
There are waivers and the Army has had members of the Sikh Faith serve, I served with a Soldier of the Skih Faith in the late 80s in the 11th ACR in Germany. I do wonder "why" his request for waiver was not approved. I've only read what he claims it to be!
Regardless, the Army is not making him choose, it's his decision to make (unless there are other reasons his wavier was denied) of his own free will. All other Soldiers of all other faiths made their choice.
I've yet to read the other side of this story....the Army's! There is always 2 sides to every tale!
It's time the Military and society stick to some rules and regulations and stop making exceptions for so many who want to be special and different! If you want to be a part of team, join the team, follow and obey the same rules as the other members of your team.
It is the Army of One! One Army, One team, not just one person! We thank you for your consideration. Apparently, you're not what the team is looking for, or needs.
There are waivers and the Army has had members of the Sikh Faith serve, I served with a Soldier of the Skih Faith in the late 80s in the 11th ACR in Germany. I do wonder "why" his request for waiver was not approved. I've only read what he claims it to be!
Regardless, the Army is not making him choose, it's his decision to make (unless there are other reasons his wavier was denied) of his own free will. All other Soldiers of all other faiths made their choice.
I've yet to read the other side of this story....the Army's! There is always 2 sides to every tale!
It's time the Military and society stick to some rules and regulations and stop making exceptions for so many who want to be special and different! If you want to be a part of team, join the team, follow and obey the same rules as the other members of your team.
It is the Army of One! One Army, One team, not just one person! We thank you for your consideration. Apparently, you're not what the team is looking for, or needs.
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
So essentially a religion with grooming standards is OK but a military with grooming standards isn't. WTF?
(2)
(0)
1
1
0
So I did a little more digging on this issue and here is what I found:
Sikhs can cut their hair. Many younger generation Sikhs do this and wear a bracelet called a kara instead of showing religious affiliation. The hard line Sikhs will refuse to cut their hair, not wear a turban or abide by any governing laws except their own religious law.
Sikhs are allowed to carry a kirpan on school grounds, but not in a hospital, federal building or on airplanes.
Looks like some concessions can be made and others cannot.
The Army also revamped its response from the first denial stating: he could seek an exemption after he was enlisted as a cadet .
Looks like there was to the story than originally published. Thoughts?
Sikhs can cut their hair. Many younger generation Sikhs do this and wear a bracelet called a kara instead of showing religious affiliation. The hard line Sikhs will refuse to cut their hair, not wear a turban or abide by any governing laws except their own religious law.
Sikhs are allowed to carry a kirpan on school grounds, but not in a hospital, federal building or on airplanes.
Looks like some concessions can be made and others cannot.
The Army also revamped its response from the first denial stating: he could seek an exemption after he was enlisted as a cadet .
Looks like there was to the story than originally published. Thoughts?
(1)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google