Posted on Jan 10, 2015
To join a reserve component, should it be a required to serve X amount of active duty time first?
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It seems there is a lack of experience or a "different" mentality in the reserves, from what I can only guess is from not being immersed in the military lifestyle every day for longer than basic training. I think a good answer to this is make a two year active duty minimum prerequisite to join any reserve component. Just a thought. Might not be THE way, but it's A way.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 99
SSgt Butterfield, I beg to differ. I would rather take a squad of reservists on a deployment then a squad of active duty folks. When you take reservists, you have to remember the different types of experiences that you are getting. I work with FBI Agents, Custom and Border Patrol Agents, Correctional Officers, Police Officers, Sheriff's, Firefighters etc..... These are my reservists. So not only are the cops in the Military, they also have other experience from outside that can help out a bad situation at times. With active duty folks, you do things one way The Military Way because that's all of the experience they have. I'd rather have 13 guys with different tools in their ruck sacks than 13 guys with the same tools in their ruck sacks. Just my opinion.
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SSG Stan Morrison Jr
9 years Army Reserves. Not sure what the question is here? I was in College when I went into the service. No, not for any benefits for school. A buddy at school got me started. Then he left school and went active. I stayed with it. Active wouldn't have worked in my situation. I think it wouldn't change anything, all soldiers are trained the same. Whether they retain their training after Basic/AIT falls heavily on the NCO's in the squad/platoon level. Failures I feel are a result of poor leadership. You could have those same failures in the Active component as well. I am sure there were poor performing Reserve Units, as well as Active units. So if I would have known going in that I was going to have to do 2 years before Reserves, I probably would never have joined.
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PO3 Aaron Hassay
I am gathering the knowledge that the ARMY is much heavier and experienced in enlisting Non-Prior SELRES Junior Enlisted to straight drilling status after ADT(bootcamp). The Navy tried to copy that format 1984 for a short decade to build manpower in the Reserve Component. It was called the Sea Air Mariner Enlistment. But then the NAVY gave up on it. 1 Secretary of NAVY said you can not have a part time sailor manning a forward deployed Combat Ship.
For all intensive purposes I believe he is correct.
I enlisted in this program.
Trying to integrate into a ship full of full time Sailors was impossible and draining.
I think the Army and National Guard have a much better system. And due the nature of the ARMY they pack many non-prior enlisted SELRES into the same units for comraderie and morale building.
The Navy in my estimation did not do this. 1 SELRES junior enlisted is going to get eaten up when attatched even for a day on a ship full of full time sailors.
For all intensive purposes I believe he is correct.
I enlisted in this program.
Trying to integrate into a ship full of full time Sailors was impossible and draining.
I think the Army and National Guard have a much better system. And due the nature of the ARMY they pack many non-prior enlisted SELRES into the same units for comraderie and morale building.
The Navy in my estimation did not do this. 1 SELRES junior enlisted is going to get eaten up when attatched even for a day on a ship full of full time sailors.
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CPT(P) (Join to see)
I can say that AC combat arms units are usually more equipt to handle those specific missions. That's from my experience. Additionally AC Soldiers (Airman, Marines, ect.) usually have civilian experiences before joining. I've seen a mix of talents and abilities on our side of the house too. I'll agree, not to the extent of the reserve or guard, but significant enough to mention.
RC and guard offer a great mix for support and logistics roles. They bring civilian skills to the table. While police officers, CO's, and other tactical personnel may bring some aspect of combat to the job, these individuals don't make up entire companies or battalions. The majority of guard INF or CAV units are not made up of these individuals. They don't get the level of training that AC does on a regular basis.
These are just my observations. Not a strike at either side and certainly not an AC vs. RC kind of argument. Just want another opinion represented in this thread.
RC and guard offer a great mix for support and logistics roles. They bring civilian skills to the table. While police officers, CO's, and other tactical personnel may bring some aspect of combat to the job, these individuals don't make up entire companies or battalions. The majority of guard INF or CAV units are not made up of these individuals. They don't get the level of training that AC does on a regular basis.
These are just my observations. Not a strike at either side and certainly not an AC vs. RC kind of argument. Just want another opinion represented in this thread.
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CMSgt Gary Lanham
Funny, the current commander of my old ANG unit was a E-5 in my section straight Guard career. When I was E-7 he came up totally ANG and is now a Lt Col. The Guard belongs to the Gov of the State. It has a local mission to the state as well so I have to say no prior service. They do BMT and Tech school along with active. Just my 2 cents.
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Interesting question. Keep in mind that the reserves are almost as large as the active duty force, so it would require the majority of active duty folks to transition to reserves after their service, which is not likely to happen voluntarily. So likely there wouldn't be enough people even if this was desired.
Also, some MOS background (infantry, sniper, etc.) might benefit from this more than others. There are a lot of people in the reserve component that are of specialized skills that actually benefit more by having civilian experience.
With that said, the reserve component units stand on their own quite well. I think that the mix of those with and without active duty experience actually has a lot of advantages.
Also, some MOS background (infantry, sniper, etc.) might benefit from this more than others. There are a lot of people in the reserve component that are of specialized skills that actually benefit more by having civilian experience.
With that said, the reserve component units stand on their own quite well. I think that the mix of those with and without active duty experience actually has a lot of advantages.
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SFC Larry Rosenthal
As someone who retired in 2010, from the Army Guard with 26 years and having served with as an assigned EM with Active Duty personnel I would like to offer this.
There are reasons men and women join the Guard over the Active Duty component. Things like family, job, college or other factors. If they are single that is one thing, however if that person has a family or significant other they can't just look at the enlistment for just themselves.
Different mental attitude, yes; Guard let's get the job done and let's get home. Cross training is definitely a big factor in the Guard. I have gotten involved in many aspects military life. As someone who was in Supply, Food Service, Recruiting and Retention, and during 9-11, as a Chaplain Assistant. We learn how to maintain our own vehicles, generators, and our own equipment. We get to learn how the job that your assigned to is intermingled with that of different MOSs. Bringing outside job skills is a major factor why most Guard Units are successful and relied on.
There are reasons men and women join the Guard over the Active Duty component. Things like family, job, college or other factors. If they are single that is one thing, however if that person has a family or significant other they can't just look at the enlistment for just themselves.
Different mental attitude, yes; Guard let's get the job done and let's get home. Cross training is definitely a big factor in the Guard. I have gotten involved in many aspects military life. As someone who was in Supply, Food Service, Recruiting and Retention, and during 9-11, as a Chaplain Assistant. We learn how to maintain our own vehicles, generators, and our own equipment. We get to learn how the job that your assigned to is intermingled with that of different MOSs. Bringing outside job skills is a major factor why most Guard Units are successful and relied on.
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SPC Travis Grizzard
We had a pilot who graduated in the top of his class at West Point. He was able to pick his school, and he chose aviation. He graduated top of his class, and was told he could pick his assignment, and he chose the Arizona National Guard. Why? Our pilots, on the average, got more stick time than active duty. Before we received Apaches, we took on the AC Apache unit that was rated the best, using our warmed over, Vietnam Cobras, {AH-1S(Mod)} in aviation war games. We beat them hands down.
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SSG (ret) William Martin
Another issue to consider is who will fill sand bags? I am not that seriously about sand bags but most slots are for E-1 through E-4. Filling the reserve ranks will be expensive.
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CPT Ahmed Faried
SPC Travis Grizzard , I'm not sure how factual that statement is. West Point graduates have to serve their initial obligation on Active Duty. Straight from their website:
"Upon graduation, you will be commissioned as a second lieutenant in the Army and serve for five years on active duty (if you choose to depart the Army after five years, you will be required to serve three years in the Inactive Ready Reserve (IRR))"
"Upon graduation, you will be commissioned as a second lieutenant in the Army and serve for five years on active duty (if you choose to depart the Army after five years, you will be required to serve three years in the Inactive Ready Reserve (IRR))"
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If that were required, folks like me wouldn't have come into the service. Definitely not saying that I'm God's gift to the AFR, but I'm sure my situation isn't unique. I joined the Reserves because I didn't want to give up my civilian career that I'd worked so hard to establish. I had been teaching for five years and I'd earned a Master's Degree in the subject. Plus, I love what I do. The Reserves allows me to have both careers. Ultimately, I will probably amass more than two years of active duty time, but not all at once, at least not for a while.
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Why is the Reserve "mentality" a problem to be solved? Is it not possible that it is a strength instead?
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Suspended Profile
In a word...no.
The dual career track experiences that reservist and guardsmen bring often out weights a person who has only been AD.
Who do I know? The MNFI CSM said so. ;)
The dual career track experiences that reservist and guardsmen bring often out weights a person who has only been AD.
Who do I know? The MNFI CSM said so. ;)
SSG (Join to see) , are you basing your opinion off of your current unit or have you been to all Reserve and Guard Units within the United States?
I know that when I was in the Florida Guard we crunched a month of training into three days of Drill. We worked a majority of the Drill and trained extremely hard. We also prepared Soldiers who had signed up yet had not shipped to Basic Training.
My second question is, how many units and different specialties have you worked with on active duty? Every individual has their own mentality. Those who wish to learn and grow will while those who only care about marching time shall do that.
My point is this, no matter what you are always going to have those who achieve and others who won't. Good Leadership can bring some of those without personal drive to come up and do better. Mentorship is the key.
Mandating an Active requirement would take away an individuals freedom of choice.
I know that when I was in the Florida Guard we crunched a month of training into three days of Drill. We worked a majority of the Drill and trained extremely hard. We also prepared Soldiers who had signed up yet had not shipped to Basic Training.
My second question is, how many units and different specialties have you worked with on active duty? Every individual has their own mentality. Those who wish to learn and grow will while those who only care about marching time shall do that.
My point is this, no matter what you are always going to have those who achieve and others who won't. Good Leadership can bring some of those without personal drive to come up and do better. Mentorship is the key.
Mandating an Active requirement would take away an individuals freedom of choice.
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SSG (Join to see)
I am basing this off of a few units and a couple branches and I'm not worried about deployments. These were infantry units and the problematic ones were Guard. But even the locked on unit in the Marine reserve still acted like it was boot camp. They were driven and got a lot out of every MUTA. But through this thread the thing I like most is the light brought to other MOS's with technical sides. A lot of soldiers civilian education and experience carry a lot of weight. Among the infantry specifically though it's just having a "certain" mentality is more important than being a student/soldier/civilian. Just my opinion. Yes, leadership has a lot to do with it. It just seems like kid gloves are need when they shouldn't be. Not in the infantry anyway.
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SSG (Join to see), I think that would defeat the purpose of the reserve components. The entire idea behind reserve components is that of the citizen soldier. At the very least, it would be very difficult, it not impossible, to recruit service members into any reserve component if an active duty tour were required as well.
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LTC Stephen C.
SSG (Join to see), nothing I wrote states the soldier wouldn't be ready and capable. Assuming an Army component (AR/NG), the soldier is sent to BCT and AIT and then returned to their unit. Ongoing training occurs during monthly assemblies and as I understand, if a unit is called up, they undergo substantial unit training/individual training stateside prior to deployment.
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SSG (Join to see)
I understand the difficulties you mention here. My concern has never been so much deployments as I have gone through the mobilization process. But more so for responding to state level emergencies.
Additionally I dont know (across the board) how hard it would be recruitment wise, seeing as about half of my unit has prior active duty experience. Agian, its just a thought and I am curious about people's opinons from different perspectives. =-)
Additionally I dont know (across the board) how hard it would be recruitment wise, seeing as about half of my unit has prior active duty experience. Agian, its just a thought and I am curious about people's opinons from different perspectives. =-)
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LTC Stephen C.
SSG (Join to see), totally understand, and the fact that there are more and more prior service personnel occupying slots in AR/NG, it seems like it could only be a good thing.
I still think a major problem could well be that of recruitment for reserve recruiters would still be required to "make mission" yet tell recruits that they had an active duty commitment to complete.
I've been out for awhile, so I'm not totally sure about this, but I think that state level emergency training would be an NG unit requirement.
I still think a major problem could well be that of recruitment for reserve recruiters would still be required to "make mission" yet tell recruits that they had an active duty commitment to complete.
I've been out for awhile, so I'm not totally sure about this, but I think that state level emergency training would be an NG unit requirement.
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SSG (Join to see)
@LTC Stephen Curlee (I posted in another portion of this posting)...I think there could be some sort of specialized contract made for this case. And I'm not saying it has to be all that long in AD. Could just be 6 months after AIT. Just some medium point that's not Basic mentality but 5 days a week on a military installation to climatize to military lifestyle.
It is extremely difficult to mold and mentor most 18-20 year olds when you work with them 2-3 days a month and two weeks in the summer.
It is extremely difficult to mold and mentor most 18-20 year olds when you work with them 2-3 days a month and two weeks in the summer.
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SGT, I personally think that such a requirement would greatly hinder the reserve components. Speaking for myself, I decided to join the National Guard because I had already established myself in a successful civilian career, but I still wanted to serve. Had there been a stipulation of active duty beforehand, I most likely would not have gone in, simply because I wouldn't want to set my career back that far, especially when I was only a few years out of college. I know this isn't true for everyone in the Reserves or Guard, but I definitely think it would be much more difficult to recruit for, and fill-out the reserve components regardless.
To add to this, it seems that active duty is fairly polarizing. Most people either want to make a career out of it, or get out as soon as they can. While this isn't true for everyone, I think most folks that would want to get out of the active side, would probably want to step away altogether, not simply transition to a reserve component.
keeping this in mind, it seems like it would fill the reserve components largely with two types of soldiers:
1) The ones that hated their active duty stint, and are therefore resentful of the service as a whole, and can't wait to be done.
2) The ones who ended up loving active duty, but were transitioned into the reserves anyhow based on their initial enlistment, and now resent the reserves.
Neither of these mindsets are conducive to performing your duties well, and (in my opinion) would end up hurting the reserve components much more than helping them.
To add to this, it seems that active duty is fairly polarizing. Most people either want to make a career out of it, or get out as soon as they can. While this isn't true for everyone, I think most folks that would want to get out of the active side, would probably want to step away altogether, not simply transition to a reserve component.
keeping this in mind, it seems like it would fill the reserve components largely with two types of soldiers:
1) The ones that hated their active duty stint, and are therefore resentful of the service as a whole, and can't wait to be done.
2) The ones who ended up loving active duty, but were transitioned into the reserves anyhow based on their initial enlistment, and now resent the reserves.
Neither of these mindsets are conducive to performing your duties well, and (in my opinion) would end up hurting the reserve components much more than helping them.
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As someone who did 3 years Active Army before switching to the Guard and now has 13 years in total, I don't agree. I left Active Army in no small part because of some of the ridiculous rules and out of touch things they pushed. I actually work full time for the Guard now and love it. Guess what, this is going to blow some people's minds, but I do PT five days a week . . . by myself, when I want, and wearing whatever I want. Heck, I even take my dogs running with me off leash in the park for my PT when the weather is nice. You have to remember that it takes all types and if the organization doesn't seem like a good fit for you personally that doesn't mean the organization needs to change.
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In some specialties this might be appropriate, but in my experience RELADs have a low participation and retention rate. I think that once a person moves from active duty to civilian work it is easier to make a clean break. Being in the reserve is a huge commitment and requires a tremendous amount of time management and dedication for minimal benefits. Often a reservist only breaks even or will go in the hole financially at least in the short term just to stay in the reserve. The real benefit is retirement augmentation and that requires a 20 year commitment and plan.
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SPC John Rickel
I recently transitioned out of active and joined the PA NG. A large part of my decision to go NG was the fact that I simply wasn't ready to tell myself that I was done with the Army. Ive had my good and bad times while I served active but I just wasn't ready to hang it up and admit to myself that I was leaving.
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CPO Jon Campbell
I have served with many people who transitioned from active duty to the reserve. It is a big change and some stick with it while many moved on. The culture is different, but the camaraderie is good - or has been in my experience. I hope you enjoy the NG and stay with it.
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SPC John Rickel
Im enjoying it so far, its a big adjustment but I'm happy with it. Ive only been there a few months but its pretty much what i wanted, not full time but I still get to put on my uniform and go be around people who I can relate to. It also kind of for me serves as a safe zone a lot of time I kind of feel out of place not wanting to say something to someone and have them take it the wrong way and i don't feel like that when I'm at drill.
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