Posted on May 27, 2017
To really excel within the ranks of the Army, must I serve in the infantry? Do I need a CIB/EIB, like the Chief and SMA?
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PV2 (Join to see) Have you ruled out the other branches? I would go with the MOS that you truly desire. If you listen, observe, and work hard, you will be successful. Good luck.
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No, it's just common to see people from the infantry branch in senior positions because there are far more infantrymen in the Army and far more infantry leaders. There's only one armored division commander, only one cavalry division commander, but there are a dozen infantry division commanders, etc.
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SGM Erik Marquez
SSG Robert Webster - Yes, Yes he was....I was his G3 SGM for a while... Great leader.
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SSG Robert Webster
SGM Erik Marquez - I was his Company Operations NCO when he was the Company XO for C 2/508. LTC(R) Keith Antonia was the Company XO before that. Both served as Platoon Leaders under MG Dorian T Anderson's command.
An interesting aside about that time period and unit are the number of General Officers that served in that unit (2/508th PIR) between 1982 and 1986, as 2nd and 1st LTs. COL(R) Ralph E Newman served as the Battalion Commander and GEN(R) Henry H Shelton served as the Brigade Commander for most of that time period.
Sorry about all of the name dropping.
An interesting aside about that time period and unit are the number of General Officers that served in that unit (2/508th PIR) between 1982 and 1986, as 2nd and 1st LTs. COL(R) Ralph E Newman served as the Battalion Commander and GEN(R) Henry H Shelton served as the Brigade Commander for most of that time period.
Sorry about all of the name dropping.
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SSG (Join to see)
SSG Robert Webster, I'm not saying non-infantry don't get those positions, just that it's not as common.
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SSG Robert Webster
SSG (Join to see) - I know what you are saying. Bottom line, it is a numbers game.
How many Infantry Lieutenants for every support branch Lieutenant? The odds highly favor the Infantry. when compared to all other branches combined.
How many Infantry Lieutenants for every support branch Lieutenant? The odds highly favor the Infantry. when compared to all other branches combined.
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I see you have received some excellent advice from people who have excelled in their chosen profession, I'd start off by listening to them,as far as going Infantry and CIBs and such ,be very careful what you wish for.
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No, you do not. However, they are indicators of where your head is. If you love being a grunt, as I and others have, you will strive for perfection in everything you do, under the worst that conditions and available equipment have to offer. The more difficult the challenge, the better. There's only one way to get the CIB, and it comes with the territory. To get the EIB you have to be tough as you can be, without being tested in actual combat. Both are badges to be proud of.
Others of course are Airborne, Ranger, Pathfinder, Sniper, etc. All require a thirst for a hard to reach prize, not a giveaway. They ask the most of the best. When a reviewer looks at your EER for the purpose of promotion, those awards say something about you and your ability to do the impossible in an impossible situation. Competition is tough and to stand out from the pack, not only do you have to lead out of physical toughness; but mental as well, to be able to overcome hardship, lack of sleep, and men that are demoralized by it. Situations that would cause others to tuck tail and run are what you look for, and what make you the leader. Being able to type error-free at 75 wpm does not make you an Infantry Leader.
If you're in the Infantry, and you do not care to excel in the physicality of the MOS, then you my friend are in the wrong MOS for a carrier slot. I can not speak for the other branches of Combat Arms, Armor and Artillery; but I'm sure they demand the same level of leadership qualification.
Let me give you an example; while stationed in Germany I had the opportunity to run the combat in cities course at Hoenfields, for V Corps. Staff. This is basically an infantry school, but at the time it was considered "Adventure Training" for them. One part of the program required them to enter a two story building from the top floor via a grappling hook and rope. Very few were able to get the hook into the window, and fewer still were able to climb the rope. My cadre did it for fun! Now that's not saying the V Corps staff were slackers or anything like that. It was just not a requirement for the MOS. Big difference!
Sure you could probably find a spot in some I.D. that you could skate along without the above, but if you're 11B and you don't want those badges of recognition then choose another MOS that you can be your best at.
Others of course are Airborne, Ranger, Pathfinder, Sniper, etc. All require a thirst for a hard to reach prize, not a giveaway. They ask the most of the best. When a reviewer looks at your EER for the purpose of promotion, those awards say something about you and your ability to do the impossible in an impossible situation. Competition is tough and to stand out from the pack, not only do you have to lead out of physical toughness; but mental as well, to be able to overcome hardship, lack of sleep, and men that are demoralized by it. Situations that would cause others to tuck tail and run are what you look for, and what make you the leader. Being able to type error-free at 75 wpm does not make you an Infantry Leader.
If you're in the Infantry, and you do not care to excel in the physicality of the MOS, then you my friend are in the wrong MOS for a carrier slot. I can not speak for the other branches of Combat Arms, Armor and Artillery; but I'm sure they demand the same level of leadership qualification.
Let me give you an example; while stationed in Germany I had the opportunity to run the combat in cities course at Hoenfields, for V Corps. Staff. This is basically an infantry school, but at the time it was considered "Adventure Training" for them. One part of the program required them to enter a two story building from the top floor via a grappling hook and rope. Very few were able to get the hook into the window, and fewer still were able to climb the rope. My cadre did it for fun! Now that's not saying the V Corps staff were slackers or anything like that. It was just not a requirement for the MOS. Big difference!
Sure you could probably find a spot in some I.D. that you could skate along without the above, but if you're 11B and you don't want those badges of recognition then choose another MOS that you can be your best at.
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CPT William Jones
Top tab on the left sleeve is Sapper I believe it is open to all mos . A hard 3 week course I have been told.
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The Infantry is the best branch in the Army in my opinion, its definitely the best branch to get promoted in thats for sure. The question is, do you want to be 60+ years old telling your grand kids that you sat behind a desk, or tell them that you close with and destroyed the enemy and got it in. Thats what made me choose Infantry.
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SFC (Join to see)
So much subjective opinion and ego in your response. Your pride is understandable, but doesn't answer the original question.
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You are looking to go into JAG Corps, which is a pretty important job, if you are enlisting for that, you can usually ask for special schools like Airborne, Air Assault on your first enlistment which will give you a few extra points when promotion time comes around. A typical bit of advice I give to kids here in town that are looking to sign up is to consider first enlistment go combat arms so that you get a real sense of those on the ground. When you are up for reenlistment then pick your JAG (or whatever your interest is) this way (keeping in mind what the overall mission of the Army is) you will always have in the back of your mind what the true purpose of the Army really is, and you can do your job better for the over all mission and unit, gives you a better sense of what is really needed.
Just a thought to consider
Just a thought to consider
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There are more opportunities in the maneuver fields like infantry and armor but that doesn't mean you can't be successful in other fields. It takes all kinds to run an Army. Just give 100% to what you do, always exceed the standards, be pro-active and you will succeed.
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PV2 (Join to see) I don't want to be a Dream killer, but your odds are like 2-4% In becoming a general officer from Colonel. The Army tends to agree. DA PAM 600-3 will tell you that reaching Lieutenant Colonel is considered a successful career. Further, Colonels are considered senior leaders in the Army.
Combat Arms Officers in particular rise to serve as general officers, I think it really boils down to Brigade as a Colonel and Division Level command as a two star. there are not really as many Brigade and equivalent commands Other branches produce general officers but they don't have near the number of functional billets. Example, "The" Judge Advocate General, the senior lawyer in the Army is a 2 star. That's it, top end. I believe the senior Chaplain is a two star. The most senior Army logistician is a four star and Commands Army Materiel Command. On the joint side the J4 is a three star, that happens to be an Army Logistician. The G4 of the Army is a Two star. There are a handful of commands at the GO level in logistics, but not nearly as many division commands and equivalents. Three star logisticians are even rarer.
The other school of thought is that the combat arms officers understand more about warfighting. The counter argument to that is at the operational and strategic level, logistics and planning are more important than the tactical level and resourcing warfighters ismof increased importance.
As far as schools and badges, you should have the training and experience for the positions you are in. There is no magic formula. Generally combat arms officers should go to Ranger school. To go there you generally need to be Airborne qualified. As an infantryman, the EIB is coveted and sought after. For a logistician, it is rare to see a ranger logistics guy, but they are out there. Served with several. Generally, but not always, success in the 101st leads through Air Assault School. Combat badges are subject to luck (lucky you lived to tell the tale), timing (there was a fight to show up at) and circumstance. A CIB or CAB may make you think twice before committing your folks in harms way or recommending to the President we go to war.
Do your job, do it well. Take care of your people. That is all that is important. The awards, badges, etc are what they are.
Combat Arms Officers in particular rise to serve as general officers, I think it really boils down to Brigade as a Colonel and Division Level command as a two star. there are not really as many Brigade and equivalent commands Other branches produce general officers but they don't have near the number of functional billets. Example, "The" Judge Advocate General, the senior lawyer in the Army is a 2 star. That's it, top end. I believe the senior Chaplain is a two star. The most senior Army logistician is a four star and Commands Army Materiel Command. On the joint side the J4 is a three star, that happens to be an Army Logistician. The G4 of the Army is a Two star. There are a handful of commands at the GO level in logistics, but not nearly as many division commands and equivalents. Three star logisticians are even rarer.
The other school of thought is that the combat arms officers understand more about warfighting. The counter argument to that is at the operational and strategic level, logistics and planning are more important than the tactical level and resourcing warfighters ismof increased importance.
As far as schools and badges, you should have the training and experience for the positions you are in. There is no magic formula. Generally combat arms officers should go to Ranger school. To go there you generally need to be Airborne qualified. As an infantryman, the EIB is coveted and sought after. For a logistician, it is rare to see a ranger logistics guy, but they are out there. Served with several. Generally, but not always, success in the 101st leads through Air Assault School. Combat badges are subject to luck (lucky you lived to tell the tale), timing (there was a fight to show up at) and circumstance. A CIB or CAB may make you think twice before committing your folks in harms way or recommending to the President we go to war.
Do your job, do it well. Take care of your people. That is all that is important. The awards, badges, etc are what they are.
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In 1973 on the DMZ Korea, there was a foot doctor, who was a Captain, but he didn't really do anything for the men, just stay behind his desk, probably just signing paper work.
Lucky there were two E-6's that were Vietnam medics that took care of all, I mean all the medical needs of battalion, saved lives too.
When asked, "Why a foot doctor and on the DMZ, and not down south at a hospital?"
His reply, "I volunteered, You can get promoted faster in a hostile fire zone."
I hope his reply can shed light on your question, he like everyone else on the DMZ got hostile fire pay, but his was more.
I never cared about that Captain during my time on the DMZ, but surely cared for those two E-6's.
And more power to him for getting promoted to Major for just being there, when the men suffered and some died, not having a qualified trauma doctor on location.
The Medevac takes 20 minutes to get to the DMZ, by then a young man lost his life after being shot, and still to this date, "I blame that Captain for only being there just to get promoted." Salute, Sir!
Lucky there were two E-6's that were Vietnam medics that took care of all, I mean all the medical needs of battalion, saved lives too.
When asked, "Why a foot doctor and on the DMZ, and not down south at a hospital?"
His reply, "I volunteered, You can get promoted faster in a hostile fire zone."
I hope his reply can shed light on your question, he like everyone else on the DMZ got hostile fire pay, but his was more.
I never cared about that Captain during my time on the DMZ, but surely cared for those two E-6's.
And more power to him for getting promoted to Major for just being there, when the men suffered and some died, not having a qualified trauma doctor on location.
The Medevac takes 20 minutes to get to the DMZ, by then a young man lost his life after being shot, and still to this date, "I blame that Captain for only being there just to get promoted." Salute, Sir!
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