Posted on Mar 25, 2015
To Shave or Not to Shave? That is the question.
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In modern times, many police and military forces prohibit beards for one important reason that came up during World War I. In order to get a clean seal on a gas mask, you must have a clean face, so soldiers made sure to shave. They may or may not have been worried about the pulling of beards during hand-to-hand combat, as Alexander the Great was.
Excluding limited exemptions for religious accommodation, the United States Army, Air Force, and Marine Corps have policies that prohibit beards on the basis of hygiene, the necessity of a good seal for chemical weapon protective masks, and the official position that uniform personal appearance and grooming contribute to discipline and a sense of camaraderie.
All branches of the U.S. Military currently prohibit beards for a vast majority of recruits, although some mustaches are still allowed, based on policies that were initiated during the period of World War I.
So, the discussion is, Should military branches change the policy on shaving due to a legacy concern of chemical/biological warfare from WWI?
IMO, Proper grooming standards should be considered. If a service member wants to grow facial hair while not in a deployed location where the threat of a chemical/biological attack could occur (this is hardly in any theater of operations anymore due to many regulations implemented internationally to destroy & manage chemical/biological weapons), they should be allowed to, but in consideration of grooming standards (i.e. length of facial hair, must represent professional appearance, etc.)
Photo: U.S. Army Captain Tejdeep Singh Rattan, 2010
Excluding limited exemptions for religious accommodation, the United States Army, Air Force, and Marine Corps have policies that prohibit beards on the basis of hygiene, the necessity of a good seal for chemical weapon protective masks, and the official position that uniform personal appearance and grooming contribute to discipline and a sense of camaraderie.
All branches of the U.S. Military currently prohibit beards for a vast majority of recruits, although some mustaches are still allowed, based on policies that were initiated during the period of World War I.
So, the discussion is, Should military branches change the policy on shaving due to a legacy concern of chemical/biological warfare from WWI?
IMO, Proper grooming standards should be considered. If a service member wants to grow facial hair while not in a deployed location where the threat of a chemical/biological attack could occur (this is hardly in any theater of operations anymore due to many regulations implemented internationally to destroy & manage chemical/biological weapons), they should be allowed to, but in consideration of grooming standards (i.e. length of facial hair, must represent professional appearance, etc.)
Photo: U.S. Army Captain Tejdeep Singh Rattan, 2010
USA
US Marine Corps (USMC)
Shaving
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 135
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I agree, allow the beards. It looks better than the majority of "mustaches" being grown, especially this month! Haha! But really, allow it. I also think females should be allowed to wear pony-tails, but I digress.
I feel strongly that a beard should be trimmed, maintained, and professional as possible, but otherwise, why not? But it's an all or none. No goatees, or patches, no chops, etc. It's a full maintained beard, mustache, or clean shaven face.
I feel strongly that a beard should be trimmed, maintained, and professional as possible, but otherwise, why not? But it's an all or none. No goatees, or patches, no chops, etc. It's a full maintained beard, mustache, or clean shaven face.
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MSgt (Join to see)
I could have sworn I commented on this, lol. :) but yes, we are allowed to wear them in pt gear, but I wouldn't mind it if we could wear them in uniform too. And I agree with you on the high ponytail that impacts the wear of the hat--not a fan.
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MSgt (Join to see)
I would have to say we should allow the van dyke. Definitely no soul patches or anything like that.
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MSgt (Join to see)
MSgt (Join to see) - I would say yes to the ponytail. I would say there would have to be limits. Such as when the hair is so long it could drag on the ground.
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The military should not change for the people.
The people need to change to become part of the military as we all have.
It's not tradition it's reverse discrimination.
If you want in here are you list of requirements. Get in line or walk away.
The people need to change to become part of the military as we all have.
It's not tradition it's reverse discrimination.
If you want in here are you list of requirements. Get in line or walk away.
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Capt (Join to see)
That's an interesting perspective. The first thing that comes to mind for me when you say that is how we, as in the services, changed our policies to allow African Americans to serve. That was a huge change, much like today's huge change of allowing Homosexuals to serve. Obviously that is a much higher degree of change than a mere policy change on a grooming standard.
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SGT Joe Sabedra
The race thing is understandable as we evolved.
Not so sure about the other one.
It's a choice.
Not so sure about the other one.
It's a choice.
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MAJ (Join to see)
Perhaps the military should not change in response to people, but it definitely should (and does) change in response to circumstances. The requirement to shave in the first place came about with the advent of chemical warfare. That being said, is there a reason to keep a change around when the circumstance for it has gone away? If so, then we should all still be feeding horses every morning...after all, the change in circumstances (motorized transport) shouldn't change the requirement (feed and care for the horses on a daily basis).
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I love this Picture. A Sikh, A Warrior Cast from India wearing the Uniform of the United States. When I lived in London the Owner of my Local Quickimart was a Sikh, Wife helping the Oldest Daughter with her school work, The Little Ones running amok in the store. Real Family Values kind of guy, loved shopping there. The Beard and Turban is part of their Religion and I don't have a Problem with it!
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The US Military should change the regulations to allow for facial hair. Not only is it un-hygienic to shave in the field, but no one is intimidated by a bunch of young looking man-children with guns. We look like an army of Children. Throw a beard on any man and instantly he looks rough, and more intimidating. If you think that there aren't any psychological warfare advantages to looking fierce then you might want to read about the Roman Legions.
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They call them standards for a reason, they should Apply to All Equally, no exception. There should not be any allowance for a departure from standards, if you cant meet the standard in an ALL VOLUNTEER FORCE, don't join.
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Capt (Join to see)
if it was truly an all volunteer force, we wouldn't have the UCMJ. in fact, we wouldn't have to suffer in the civilian world because of a dishonorable discharge.yes, I agree with each and everyone of us decided to volunteer to serve in each of the services, however we all took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. with that said, overtime policies do change based on new technology and modernization of society.
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CW3(P) (Join to see)
I hate rules on top of rules but once again and as LTJG Myles stated, I saw the rules and I raised my right hand and swore to abide them. To me it's that simple. I'll be out soon though. :)
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My heart goes out to the leaders of our country. They are having to make decisions every day that keep us safe as American citizens. These days, if you don't bow to the political pressures of all these wanna-be agenda setting organizations, you stand to lose millions in lawsuits to accomodate the individuals when that money could go towards the social programs and military defense that benefit the vast MAJORITY of Americans. Pray for our leaders. They need all the help they can get.
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Beards . . . I don't know, or more accurately I don't have enough at stake in the issue to offer a full opinion, I don't grow a good looking beard anyway. I would like to see the mustache regs loosedned up a bit though, the whole "corner of the mouth" width limit is a bit ridiculous and is nearly impossible to make to look good.
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SPC (Join to see)
makes people look like a bunch of Hitlers... which believe it or not he cut it short because he had a problem in trenches with mustache and a gas mask
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Not only no, but hell no... If you want to be a Soldier, then be meet the standard... I agree with some, you can make exceptions for Special Operations, but that is all, in my primitive view.
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Capt (Join to see)
I will be honest sir, I don't see the logic. If there is an exception due to Special Military operations in the AOR where service members don't have to shave, granted the purpose is to blend in and be more welcoming to tribal elders, then why not, in that same AOR, where thousands of others are operating, be allowed to follow a new policy on grooming standards? Let's point this out, they still deploy with the gas mask, they they are all aware of the possible threat of chemical weapon utilization, but we all know the groups we currently fight don't employ or have the capability. I think a higher reliance and trust on our intelligence collection capabilities (far greater than in 1914 when these policies were enstated) to brief commanders on the possible threat of chemical weapons in an adversary AOR would warrant the ability to create and or modify a legacy policy.
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I say change or modify the standard (how are "change" and "modify" two separate options on this poll?).
For normal operations, I see no reason why soldiers cannot be allowed to have well-groomed facial hair. When handled properly, it can look professional. The military managed it for longer than it has prohibited facial hair.
So what about achieving a proper seal on the mask? Well that's easy. If you are in an environment where a potential CBRN threat requires you to carry a mask, the commander can issue an order requiring everyone to shave. No different than carrying your weapon in some environments but not others or being able to drink most of the time but not in a combat zone.
Anytime you aren't carrying your mask, well if you don't have it on you then you obviously aren't donning it quickly anyway.
Besides, I've already seen soldiers with facial hair outside the standards but they were females so no one wanted to correct them.
For normal operations, I see no reason why soldiers cannot be allowed to have well-groomed facial hair. When handled properly, it can look professional. The military managed it for longer than it has prohibited facial hair.
So what about achieving a proper seal on the mask? Well that's easy. If you are in an environment where a potential CBRN threat requires you to carry a mask, the commander can issue an order requiring everyone to shave. No different than carrying your weapon in some environments but not others or being able to drink most of the time but not in a combat zone.
Anytime you aren't carrying your mask, well if you don't have it on you then you obviously aren't donning it quickly anyway.
Besides, I've already seen soldiers with facial hair outside the standards but they were females so no one wanted to correct them.
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Capt (Join to see)
That's a good point. When I was at KAF I carried my 9mm with me, but I didn't have to carry my gas mask around.
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SGT (Join to see)
SFC (Join to see) " I've already seen soldiers with facial hair outside the standards but they were females so no one wanted to correct them."
SFC, that just made my day!
SFC, that just made my day!
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I've been in the military 35 years and counting and I really hate shaving but it's the regulation so I shave. Then so should everyone else in the military unless a medical profile is valid. (Period)
This may sound strange but we (the military) defend democracy but the military is not a democracy. I'm curious as to what you (Weiss) think of that statement.
This may sound strange but we (the military) defend democracy but the military is not a democracy. I'm curious as to what you (Weiss) think of that statement.
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Capt (Join to see)
35 years!? Wow. That's intense. So even after that long of service, in multiple capacities, you still feel a clean shaven face is the way to be?
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CW3(P) (Join to see)
Well let me make myself clear, I would prefer not to shave. However, it is a regulation in the military and so I obey as I do to all regulations to the best of my knowledge. Medical exception is a good consideration but that's it. That's the way I see it any ways. If you don't like the rules join a club that has rules you like. I'm not directing that comment to you, it's just a statement. When I fully retire I'll shave when I want to if I want to. :)
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SFC (Join to see)
I don't think whether or not we should follow the established rules and regulations is in question. The issue is whether or not it is time to change the existing regulations.
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