USAF Force distribution: Does it seem too "hard" or "harsh"?

Wish I could plus this up a hundred times. It always drove me nuts that duty performance was just another equally weighted factor among other "whole person" factors.

MSgt Clute....my 2 cents is there are a lot of folks who like to say they work too long hours etc to volunteer....at the same time I see them playing video games on their time off, out partying etc....it doesn't take much to spend a couple hours 1 day to volunteer in the community/base.....I work plenty of hours, take classes, have a family and can still get out and volunteer....I even recruited my family to go along with me to volunteer at times so we can spend time together and give back so it's not like sacrificing family time to do it....all I'm saying is there are ways to git'er done....I don't care for the career volunteers either so I see what you are saying about those that volunteer for everything....

SMSgt Steve Pecht, I understand what you are saying, I truly do. There is always a way to get it done, but that will always come at the expense of something with family. Just one situation I deal with (volunteering) is a dual military couple, both going to school, and raising/managing 3 children with daily homework/projects, maintaing a household and family time. They literally have 0 time to compete with other members volunteer time. I don't believe volunteering should hold as much weight as it currently does.Members like this do a wonderful job in today's Air Force (at least mine do) and should not have to take a "penalty". Just my 2 cents. After all, according to CMSAF Rodney McKinley " Service before self does not mean you stop taking care of your families. Our families are a critical element of the Air Force family. Our service should enhance their health, morale and welfare – not take away from it."

Reference: http://secure.afa.org/EdOp/2009/Service_Before_Self_Perspective%20_17%20Feb%2009_.pdf

Well, we're acting like our commanders have never stratified people before. All officer promotions are based on stratifications. And we, to, often PCS right before the promotion recommendation is made, leaving a new commander to figure out where we fit into his already-decided stratifications.

On the plus side, an enlisted troop realistically has several chances at each promotion, whereas an officer is really one and done.

Lt Col (Join to see) Well sir it is not the commanders per say but the promotion system didn't do so hot in the past with enlisted stratification so thus the concern. Also unless things have changed greatly the officer OPR or whatever it is called now was designed for that purpose. In addition if you don't get promoted to the SNCO ranks the first couple of times you are pretty much done. I am curious though, for Lt and Capt unless you really screwed up you were going to get promoted. Major was about 3 or 4 chances then after that you had basically 2 chances at Lt. Col and Col depending on your career field. What is the process now?

Oh, no. If you don't make captain, you have really screwed something up. The promotion rate to major is actually fairly high (92% last year), but the promotion rate for guys passed over on their first attempt is essentially zero. Technically four shots at LtCol, but that's because the really fast burners can get promoted up to two years below the in-zone promotion year. Not many people are even considered for that, and most who are considered don't make it. Then there's one below...slightly less competitive, but still a small number. Then in-promotion zone (IPZ). The numbers there are roughly 70% to Lt Col. Miss IPZ, and again, while you can technically be considered on future boards, the reality is you are done being promoted.

Thanks for the info Lt Col (Join to see)

TSgt Joshua Copeland I'm really interested in how other Sq's plan to handle this in the future. When we accomplished our rack and stack with our SSgts for the EPRs that just closed our 31 Jan 15, it was really difficult. 98% of my 26 SSgts had firewall 5 EPRs and DP statements from their additional raters. I hope the new EPR will stop over inflation, but i'm not confident it will.

SMSgt Judy Hickman, that will be the advantage going forward since the EPR itself wont have a "rating" from the supervisor or promotion statements like we are use too. They will have to be judge based on the word picture and whatever process the unit uses to rack and stack. I am going to guess at least some units will do a excel spreadsheet with checkboxes. He/She with the most boxes is #1 and go down from there.

TSgt Joshua Copeland I currently use the same format for DSD. I just hope that additional raters/flight chief's start thinking about racking and stacking at their level to ensure we get the right people DP's at the Sq/Gp/Wg level.

I believe folks at the SNCOA were told the other day your sq has to have a certain # of MSgts (# was 12 I believe) to keep the CC decision at sq level.

Sir, the expected date of release is 2 Apr...after the SrA close out date.

Thanks, that is what I had heard as well - figured they didn't want to cause any confusion with the A1C/SrA EPRs before the SCOD.

Maj Matt Hylton: it's great to see officers looking out for the best interests of their troops! I commend you, sir!

Lt Col (Join to see) attached is a chart of the historical promotion percentages by Rank and Cycle.

So 20% seems about right.

Across all ranks/averaged over time, yep. SMSgt hovers closer to 10%

Here are today's numbers that go released for 15E8

Number Eligible: 14,362
Number Selected: 1,257
AF-Wide Selection Rate: 8.75%

Were you the best of the best your entire career sir? I see this common view from SNCOs and a lot of us junior NCOs agree that they all more than likely got to their rank now by using the inflated EPR system. I'm not saying you are one of those, but see it from our view.

MSgt (Join to see), thanks for the reply. No, I would not say that I was the best of the best throughout my entire career. However, I have usually been among the best throughout, but the Army promotion system is a bit different than the Air Force system:

Local promotions for Junior Enlisted Soldiers (Private (PVT/E1) to Specialist (SPC/E4)) are usually automatic. Soldiers get promoted based upon Time in Service (TIS) as long as they are basically staying out of trouble. If they are lazy and/or irresponsible, then they won't get promoted until they seem ready. The company commander (usually an O3) is the promotion authority.

Promotion to Corporal (CPL) is either a lateral appointment or a Department of the Army (DA) promotion. This is normally reserved for E4s who are functioning in an E5 position or higher. The company commander approves lateral appointments. The DA promotion basically requires DA acknowledgement, which is a bit more complicated, so I won’t discuss it here.

DA semi-centralized promotions (Sergeant (SGT) and Staff Sergeant (SSG)) work a bit differently. These promotions require that one meet or exceed a specified amount of points. Points are gained based upon awards and decorations, deployments, marksmanship scores, PFT scores, civilian education, the commander's recommendation, and a "promotion board" score. The promotion board is normally composed of a Command Sergeant Major (CSM/E9) and several First Sergeants (1SGs/E8s). The CSM normally serves as the president of the board. When appearing before the board, mastery of basic combat and combat-related skills, oral communication skills (one must be confident), and situational awareness about current events are required. One will be tested, and I have seen many people kicked out of those boards for being cocky or unknowledgeable. A good board appearance and commander's recommendation are both important parts of the points, but they alone will not guarantee promotion. One still must 'reach the points cutoff.' This system leaves little room for the inflated system that we both mentioned, because the responsibility is mostly upon the individual Soldier.

The final promotion category is the DA centralized promotion system (Sergeant First Class (SFC) to Sergeant Major (SGM)/Command Sergeant Major (CSM). This is where an inflated system can hold more weight. These boards convene in one specific location, so they are completely records based. The DA photo, NCOERs (same thing as EPRs), and Academic Evaluation Reports, and Civilian Education are all considered. If one receives a lot of inflated ratings on evaluations, then they may appear better than their peers. Soldiers with the best ‘word pictures’ usually get promoted.

I hope this helps, SSgt. Your questions are welcome anytime.

SSG Leonard J W. I did not mean to reply to you, I actually replied to the SMSgt above. Sorry about the confusion but great post.

@ssgt Jeremy Koenig, I understand, and no worries!

SSgt (Join to see): Well stated! Everyone has strengths and weaknesses - the key is to capitalize on how to best identify those individuals. I think most promotion systems are flawed in some way.

SSG Leonard J W. I agree with any of the systems being flawed, I just believe that the board system has come the furthest in establishing the weeding process

I was curious though, how exactly is the Army promotion system broken down?

SSgt (Join to see), that is a great question! Our system is point based, ranging from deployments to awards to board scores. It's also not perfect, but most people seem to adapt to it. Then there are the others who are terrified of speaking in front of others...they don't do so well in the board, but they can still be promoted if they have enough points from other categories.

Sir, thanks for the thoughts. I agree with you, especially that those with the lower rankings will get promoted. It's going to be hard for us AF folks to wrap our head around until it happens for the first time. We will still promote roughly the same percentage and most of the time it is more than 5%. Promotions are also in your particular career field so really how many of the top 5% will an individuals career field really have.

COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM, your post is well stated (as always). You have accurately identified trends and flaws that our top leaders may not have noticed...