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I am in the Army Reserve and this past weekend my unit and I went to the range. While at the range, I was told that one of my AGR E5 NCOs was being very disrespectful and unprofessional towards other NCOs and Officers while he was a range safety. Afterwards, my SFC supply sergeant asked him if he cleaned his weapon and he stated that he was not going to clean his MFing weapon. The SFC brought this to my attention and I said I would handle it. Later on, when I saw him again, I has him put away some items he was carrying and instructed him to bring his weapon while we walked to a secluded area. I had my LT platoon leader come with me. While I was doing this and trying to talk to him, he continuously interrupted me and was not treating me like his senior. I put him at the position of attention then told him to get in the front leaning rest position and he said he wasn't going to effing do that. I said great, let's go see the CSM. The CSM sided with him and said I escalated things too quickly (he said this with my E5 right there). He then said that he hold his AGR Soldiers at a higher standard than just a regular reservist. My brain was boiling... Doesn't take any consideration to my prior active time, my deployment, my rank, my leadership history.
I understand I might have escalated quickly but don't demean me in front my my Soldiers. I was going to have him in the front leaning rest while I calmly talk to him. I just wanted him to be uncomfortable while I explain what professionalism is and what the NCO Creed stands for and that I won't tolerate one of my NCOs disrespecting other NCOs or Officers.
Was I wrong in what I was doing? Am I too old school for today's Army? How could I have handled things differently? Now he probably thinks he is untouchable...
Update: So that individual got promoted and is awaiting transfer. He and I talked about what happened and he apologized for how he reacted. I just left it at that. I understand where I went wrong and if something like that happens again, I will be more prepared with having paperwork ready to escalate.
To give a little more insight on my unit, we are essentially the command part of a larger unit which we oversee. Similar to an HQ or HHC. It's hospital unit and we're the hospital center. Those of you who've been in a hospital unit, you probably understand the unique dynamic. With that being said, my position is basically the 1SG but with a squad sized element. My next higher up is the CSM, which is why I went to him instead of a 1SG.
I understand I might have escalated quickly but don't demean me in front my my Soldiers. I was going to have him in the front leaning rest while I calmly talk to him. I just wanted him to be uncomfortable while I explain what professionalism is and what the NCO Creed stands for and that I won't tolerate one of my NCOs disrespecting other NCOs or Officers.
Was I wrong in what I was doing? Am I too old school for today's Army? How could I have handled things differently? Now he probably thinks he is untouchable...
Update: So that individual got promoted and is awaiting transfer. He and I talked about what happened and he apologized for how he reacted. I just left it at that. I understand where I went wrong and if something like that happens again, I will be more prepared with having paperwork ready to escalate.
To give a little more insight on my unit, we are essentially the command part of a larger unit which we oversee. Similar to an HQ or HHC. It's hospital unit and we're the hospital center. Those of you who've been in a hospital unit, you probably understand the unique dynamic. With that being said, my position is basically the 1SG but with a squad sized element. My next higher up is the CSM, which is why I went to him instead of a 1SG.
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Edited 2 y ago
Posted 3 y ago
Responses: 168
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No, you were correct the CSM was totally wrong. It should have went to the CO on charges. Semper Fi
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I did have an individual with one stripe when i was a SSgt decide not to obey a lawful order I gave Him, I removed Him from post, had Him turn His weapon in and informed Him He will not be returning to work unless directed by the Commander or First Sergeant. I made it clear to the Commander and First Sergeant I had no use for Him and didn't want Him back. The Commander not only backed Me but a second stripe He was going to get the orders were cancelled, the one stripe He had was taken all from an Article 15. In addition was not only removed from duty but also the career field. He was the only one in My 22 years of military service that ever did that and no way was I going to put up with it.
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I will get straight to the point. I had a similar situation and I had to charge the Marine, I used the UCMJ in the way in the way it was meant to. You can't save a rotten apple from going bad but you can get ride of it so the other apples don't follow suit and go bad also. The pen is a mighty weapon when dealing with 'Knuckle Heads'.
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Your CSM is a pussy and a weak leader. Fuck him. Write the NCO up for insubordination and failure to follow a direct order. If he gives you shit, take him to the tree line. If the CSM and any brass don't support you, take it over their heads. And keep taking it over their heads. Reserve, National Guard, Active Duty...doesn't matter. Rank is rank and orders are orders, If you let this slide, it will only go down hill from here. And not just with that NCO. Word will get out you're a punk and everyone will start disrespecting you. I used to tell my squad, fear or respect. Make your choice but you will have one of the two. My preference is respect but at the end of the day the results will be the same either way.
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Suspended Profile
Maybe even pull out a voice recorder or a cell phone recording and then tell him too do it
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Hard to say without going over the NCO's past history of behavior but I will say you're in for a rough road if he continues this behavior with the CSM's stance on the matter.
Documentation and witness statements going forward might be necessary.
Documentation and witness statements going forward might be necessary.
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SSG (Join to see)
I hear you. I'm planning on transferring soon anyway. It's time to move on for career progression.
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LOL, I hung out with my father too long in his office, NCO's and around officers. Picked up a BUNCH of things ;0)
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That is insubordination, disrespect for your superior ranking NCO's & Officers, verbal explicatives & verbal abuse, no honor at ALL.
Here goes you some ammunition:
Army Regulation 600-20 provides that inappropriate superior-subordinate relationships are prohibited if they:
1. Compromise, or appear to compromise, the integrity of supervisory authority or the chain of command;
2. Cause actual or perceived partiality or unfairness;
3. Involve, or appear to involve, the improper use of rank or position for personal gain;
4. Are, or are perceived to be, exploitative or coercive in nature;
5. Create an actual or clearly predictable adverse impact on discipline, authority, morale or the ability of the command to accomplish its mission.
Here goes you some ammunition:
Army Regulation 600-20 provides that inappropriate superior-subordinate relationships are prohibited if they:
1. Compromise, or appear to compromise, the integrity of supervisory authority or the chain of command;
2. Cause actual or perceived partiality or unfairness;
3. Involve, or appear to involve, the improper use of rank or position for personal gain;
4. Are, or are perceived to be, exploitative or coercive in nature;
5. Create an actual or clearly predictable adverse impact on discipline, authority, morale or the ability of the command to accomplish its mission.
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SSG James Mielke
Indeed. Unfortunately, Part-Timer units (Reserve and Nat. Guard) are very much like that. It happens in Active units too, but is greatly off-set by they typical 3 year rotation that happens.
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As an E-5 Reservist who was also prior active, you were absolutely NOT wrong by any stretch! Being a Range Safety certainly does not preclude you from showing proper customs and courtesies, especially toward senior NCO's. Old fashioned? Not by a long shot. If one does not expose unacceptable behavior and contempt for subordinates - how will that fare in a forward operating area, or combat? Frankly, this Range Safety needs a little 'old school' corrective action.
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