Posted on Apr 3, 2020
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(Update: 14 Jun 2020) - While this story remains in the news (https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/06/19/navy-wont-reinstate-crozier-fires-1-star-over-poor-decision-making.html), we are reminded of what is today!!!
On this Father's Day and Flag Day for 2020 it might serve all of us to think about all the fathers and mothers too who are serving away from home and on whom their fellow soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines and coastguardsmen rely. While many have voiced opinions on many sides of this event, and its implications are not yet fully felt, the point is simply this quote:
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty (aka freedom)"
It does not matter who made the quote often attributed to a particular Founding Father, but with little tangible evidence to verify that attribution; rather, it is the meaning in the words that are much more important!!! In the world of politics, we are reminded, that the mastery of the gymnastic linguistics involved in the defense of an indefensible position is the tangled web woven by the venom of the spiders that need absolute power.
With > 22.5 views, >1.3 K likes and >370 comments as of this date this post has had a lot of play. I want to thank all those the posted. Have a great Father's day, Flag Day and think deeply about the event that will be soon upon us - the 4th of July. Our nation is difficult, but in that difficulty has always been hope. I continue to pray that our nation of men, of women, of black, of white, of so many others learns that our common humanity it more important than our, often contrived differences. We'd be wise to remember that:
ALL people have "...certain unalienable rights..." and "...that among thee are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness..." None of which can ever be truly achieved when small minds are willing to act out of fear and ignorance to save only themselves and deny these "...unalienable rights..." to the least among us who are in our care!
Blessing to all....
-------------
(Update: 13 Apr 2020) - Thank you SGT (Join to see) for this "interesting update" regarding the Pentagon's "worries" over CAPT Crozier's actions (https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/pentagon-worries-capt-crozier-s-concern-for-his-sailors-may-be-contagious--3). Humm. So, a Pentagon spokesperson could have actually said. “...This makes us sitting here in the Pentagon look like out-of-touch asses....” Now that is interesting!?!?!?!?!
Oh, I love the phrase "Crozier-20" - funnyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!
But, in all seriousness, if you are going to train officers and senior enlisted leaders that taking care of the troops is the #1 priority when it comes to being resilient, mission focused and combat ready, you should expect - the truth.
But, it is the update (https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/rising-navy-coronavirus-cases-put-heightened-tempo-into-question?loc=similar_main&pos=0&type=qrc) from PO1 William "Chip" Nagel that makes the update from SGT (Join to see) not just funny from Duffelblog, but actually poignant. Humm!
I'd bet good money that the CO has this over his desk in his stateroom: http://www.worldfuturefund.org/Documents/maninarena.htm
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(Update: 09 Apr 2020) - Thank you SSG Robert Mark Odom for this intel - https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/roosevelt-sailor-with-covid-19-found-unresponsive-in-guam.
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Dear RP Family,
By now, the world knows the CO, CAPTAIN B.E. Crozier, of the USS Theodore Rooselvet (CVN-71) has been relieved of command for a letter he wrote dated 30 March 2020 regarding Coronavirus.
CAPT Crozier's letter (https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Exclusive-Captain-of-aircraft-carrier-with-15167883.php) is interesting and reminds me of another CO I once gladly served, CAPT Howick. Capt Howick, I believe, would have taken the same action as Capt Crozier, based on my service with him during an evolution at REFTRA in GITMO just prior to our deploying as part of Desert Shield.
Capt Crozier, stated the obvious impact and outcomes of an uncontrolled disease state on an advanced ship of war. Is that not what a competent war fighter does? So the YES's are:
- Yes, our enemies now know (perhaps have always known) how rapidly they can degrade our at sea war fighting forces with a simple 'invisible bug';
- Yes, I am sure the DoD, especially the US Navy, did not want to reveal this as I am sure it scared the crap out of the CoC;
- Yes, the families of those sailors are scared, but I think those who are honest with themselves are glad their sailors or marines served with this Capt. as much as I was proud to serve a CO like USN Capt. Howick or USMC Col. Doyle in the 1980s.
Perhaps what Capt. Crozier was thinking about was what Sun Tzu was reported to have said: "So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak." His mighty warship was weakening and he knew it. The CoC was apparently not listening, so he took the only course of action that was seemly left to him in order to take care of "his crew - aka his shipmates" and "attempt to maintain mission readiness."
He knew the risk the letter entailed. While he has been relieved, I think he will be asked to retire; and, I am not sure he will be Courts-Marshaled for this "seeming insubordination" as such an act by DoD could be spun in the media, if they chose to, into greater questions that would expose the military's ability to protect our own in times of this kind of crisis. He did not commit a USA LT William Calley or a USN Chief Gallagher type event from their 'personal actions'. If anything, from his letter he has outlined courses of action that could become military wide, if not US Navy, medical doctrine going forward under similar future conditions and provide a better process for OPSEC under such conditions. Even when we get a handle on testing and treatment, there will be other "hidden COVID-19 type" threats. The question should be for the CoC, is how will we now keep our war fighters at sea safer and mission responsive, especially aboard one of the most powerful platforms in our arsenal?
I have been a carrier sailor and I am sure the CMO and Senior PMT along with the entire Medical Department on TR are busting ass. In closing, I remember the singular case of Legionnaires disease we got aboard the USS Coral Sea (CV-43) when to the Med in 1989. The young (20 yo) sailor died about 10 days after arrival on board after his leave. I was a new PMT then, it was interesting times.
Finally, my sister is a DoD Civlian in the ME and she tells me that troops are coughing all over in her particular indoor-based operations. This operation is not mission essential. Apparently, no PPE or social distancing is being accomplished when I last spoke with her 26 Mar (4 days before CAPT Crozier's letter.)
In any event, just sharing some thoughts from an old sea dawg!
Blessing always to the RP family,
Question: Did CAPTAIN Crozier ultimately show "genuine leadership" or "fool-heartiness" by the penning of this letter and transmitting it in the open?
BTW, if you want to understand how sailors and marines feel about those that lead them under difficult circumstances this video might tell you something - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpNT5KUYhTM.
On this Father's Day and Flag Day for 2020 it might serve all of us to think about all the fathers and mothers too who are serving away from home and on whom their fellow soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines and coastguardsmen rely. While many have voiced opinions on many sides of this event, and its implications are not yet fully felt, the point is simply this quote:
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty (aka freedom)"
It does not matter who made the quote often attributed to a particular Founding Father, but with little tangible evidence to verify that attribution; rather, it is the meaning in the words that are much more important!!! In the world of politics, we are reminded, that the mastery of the gymnastic linguistics involved in the defense of an indefensible position is the tangled web woven by the venom of the spiders that need absolute power.
With > 22.5 views, >1.3 K likes and >370 comments as of this date this post has had a lot of play. I want to thank all those the posted. Have a great Father's day, Flag Day and think deeply about the event that will be soon upon us - the 4th of July. Our nation is difficult, but in that difficulty has always been hope. I continue to pray that our nation of men, of women, of black, of white, of so many others learns that our common humanity it more important than our, often contrived differences. We'd be wise to remember that:
ALL people have "...certain unalienable rights..." and "...that among thee are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness..." None of which can ever be truly achieved when small minds are willing to act out of fear and ignorance to save only themselves and deny these "...unalienable rights..." to the least among us who are in our care!
Blessing to all....
-------------
(Update: 13 Apr 2020) - Thank you SGT (Join to see) for this "interesting update" regarding the Pentagon's "worries" over CAPT Crozier's actions (https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/pentagon-worries-capt-crozier-s-concern-for-his-sailors-may-be-contagious--3). Humm. So, a Pentagon spokesperson could have actually said. “...This makes us sitting here in the Pentagon look like out-of-touch asses....” Now that is interesting!?!?!?!?!
Oh, I love the phrase "Crozier-20" - funnyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!
But, in all seriousness, if you are going to train officers and senior enlisted leaders that taking care of the troops is the #1 priority when it comes to being resilient, mission focused and combat ready, you should expect - the truth.
But, it is the update (https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/rising-navy-coronavirus-cases-put-heightened-tempo-into-question?loc=similar_main&pos=0&type=qrc) from PO1 William "Chip" Nagel that makes the update from SGT (Join to see) not just funny from Duffelblog, but actually poignant. Humm!
I'd bet good money that the CO has this over his desk in his stateroom: http://www.worldfuturefund.org/Documents/maninarena.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------------
(Update: 09 Apr 2020) - Thank you SSG Robert Mark Odom for this intel - https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/roosevelt-sailor-with-covid-19-found-unresponsive-in-guam.
-------------------------------------------------
Dear RP Family,
By now, the world knows the CO, CAPTAIN B.E. Crozier, of the USS Theodore Rooselvet (CVN-71) has been relieved of command for a letter he wrote dated 30 March 2020 regarding Coronavirus.
CAPT Crozier's letter (https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Exclusive-Captain-of-aircraft-carrier-with-15167883.php) is interesting and reminds me of another CO I once gladly served, CAPT Howick. Capt Howick, I believe, would have taken the same action as Capt Crozier, based on my service with him during an evolution at REFTRA in GITMO just prior to our deploying as part of Desert Shield.
Capt Crozier, stated the obvious impact and outcomes of an uncontrolled disease state on an advanced ship of war. Is that not what a competent war fighter does? So the YES's are:
- Yes, our enemies now know (perhaps have always known) how rapidly they can degrade our at sea war fighting forces with a simple 'invisible bug';
- Yes, I am sure the DoD, especially the US Navy, did not want to reveal this as I am sure it scared the crap out of the CoC;
- Yes, the families of those sailors are scared, but I think those who are honest with themselves are glad their sailors or marines served with this Capt. as much as I was proud to serve a CO like USN Capt. Howick or USMC Col. Doyle in the 1980s.
Perhaps what Capt. Crozier was thinking about was what Sun Tzu was reported to have said: "So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak." His mighty warship was weakening and he knew it. The CoC was apparently not listening, so he took the only course of action that was seemly left to him in order to take care of "his crew - aka his shipmates" and "attempt to maintain mission readiness."
He knew the risk the letter entailed. While he has been relieved, I think he will be asked to retire; and, I am not sure he will be Courts-Marshaled for this "seeming insubordination" as such an act by DoD could be spun in the media, if they chose to, into greater questions that would expose the military's ability to protect our own in times of this kind of crisis. He did not commit a USA LT William Calley or a USN Chief Gallagher type event from their 'personal actions'. If anything, from his letter he has outlined courses of action that could become military wide, if not US Navy, medical doctrine going forward under similar future conditions and provide a better process for OPSEC under such conditions. Even when we get a handle on testing and treatment, there will be other "hidden COVID-19 type" threats. The question should be for the CoC, is how will we now keep our war fighters at sea safer and mission responsive, especially aboard one of the most powerful platforms in our arsenal?
I have been a carrier sailor and I am sure the CMO and Senior PMT along with the entire Medical Department on TR are busting ass. In closing, I remember the singular case of Legionnaires disease we got aboard the USS Coral Sea (CV-43) when to the Med in 1989. The young (20 yo) sailor died about 10 days after arrival on board after his leave. I was a new PMT then, it was interesting times.
Finally, my sister is a DoD Civlian in the ME and she tells me that troops are coughing all over in her particular indoor-based operations. This operation is not mission essential. Apparently, no PPE or social distancing is being accomplished when I last spoke with her 26 Mar (4 days before CAPT Crozier's letter.)
In any event, just sharing some thoughts from an old sea dawg!
Blessing always to the RP family,
Question: Did CAPTAIN Crozier ultimately show "genuine leadership" or "fool-heartiness" by the penning of this letter and transmitting it in the open?
BTW, if you want to understand how sailors and marines feel about those that lead them under difficult circumstances this video might tell you something - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpNT5KUYhTM.
CAPT
Mission
Integrity
Political Correctness
Medical
Edited 4 y ago
Posted 4 y ago
Responses: 86
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Just see his crew send him off! https://apple.news/AMS8mOiAvSviqVrx4Bm8ORw
Sailors cheer Navy captain removed for coronavirus warning — CNN Politics
The commander of a US aircraft carrier hit by a major outbreak of coronavirus was ousted after writing a memo warning that decisive action was needed to save the lives of the ship's crew.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
1SG Walter Craig - The problem is electronics. I was in the Navy in the 80's and pulled into ports... and did things... that um... well...
Lets just say I'm glad there were no cell phones, internet or social media. So we're not headed anywhere really. Its just that when you and I were in, any sin we committed was going to take an act of God to discover. Now sadly, two clicks on facebook and you've ended your command career by posting something that had to travel securely back in your day and my day.
Lets just say I'm glad there were no cell phones, internet or social media. So we're not headed anywhere really. Its just that when you and I were in, any sin we committed was going to take an act of God to discover. Now sadly, two clicks on facebook and you've ended your command career by posting something that had to travel securely back in your day and my day.
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SPC James Jackson
CPO Nate S. nope. Sorry but if the Captain was so loved by his crew it should not have taken anyone other than himself stopping and telling them to disperse.
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SPC James Jackson
SSG Bob Teachout actually SSG Treachout as a matter of fact I have seen and slept in the berthing areas of two different carriers. Doesn't change my statement nor does it change the fact that while he was grandstanding preparations were already underway in Guam. It also doesn't change the fact that all of those sailors who got sick did so because he decided to take a port call in Vietnam knowing that the virus was already running loose. It was his actions that put the crew in jeopardy no matter how much they cheered for him. When he should have been playing the responsible parent and saying no, he was trying to be everyone's friend. That's not a Princess Cruise ship that is a weapon of war and we are professionals.. soldiers, sailors, Marines, airmen, coasties, whatever they're calling the space force folks, etc. PROFESSIONALS. So far, as of late, I haven't seen a whole lot of it coming from a whole lot of active, reserve and guard.
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Yes. Because he brought discredit on himself, the Dept of the Nave, the Uniform and the United States Government. A flag officer, out of all, knows better than to do this. He has enough rank and prestige to get his concerned addressed promptly without becoming political. Sucks to be in his shoes about now.
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None of the above, even a CO of a bird farm understands military protocol and chain of command. Also, bypassing the COC and publicizing the normal units that would explain actions being taken. Hope it was worth it, he lost it all. Shame, since it seems his crew held him in high respect. I would guess most career professionals understand this had to be done.
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MCPO Roger Collins
PO3 Donald Murphy What he was trying to do was commendable, how he did it was not. Anyone that climbs the difficult ladder to be given this unique responsibility of command of an aircraft carrier, should know how to get assistance in a pending crisis situation. He had to know the outcome.
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MCPO Roger Collins
1SG Walter Craig What’s a sub mariner? Never met one in my 21 year career in submarines. Lots of Submariners, though.
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MCPO Roger Collins
1SG Walter Craig In the Navy, they are referred to as Sea Stories. They start with the opening statement. “This is no shit”. We also have what we call Sea Lawyers.
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He was out of line.
1. Great that you have internet and wifi and email and cell phones but just because you HAVE them, doesn't mean that they are safe. OpSec, OpSec, OpSec. Can't be sending stuff open-air. Now every potential enemy knows that his ship has degradation due to health reasons.
2. He was the commanding officer of an aircraft carrier - he couldn't have flown people off/on?
3. Despite the gravity of the situation you're still a link within the chain of command. He doesn't have a red phone somewhere in his stateroom? If you don't like the speed that peacetime resolution travels at, then there are avenues for going further. He chose to make that public.
4. When you slight command you slight ALL OF COMMAND. Now all of the Navy is deemed as uncaring and insensitive and unprepared. He can't have thought that there would be no repurcussions.
1. Great that you have internet and wifi and email and cell phones but just because you HAVE them, doesn't mean that they are safe. OpSec, OpSec, OpSec. Can't be sending stuff open-air. Now every potential enemy knows that his ship has degradation due to health reasons.
2. He was the commanding officer of an aircraft carrier - he couldn't have flown people off/on?
3. Despite the gravity of the situation you're still a link within the chain of command. He doesn't have a red phone somewhere in his stateroom? If you don't like the speed that peacetime resolution travels at, then there are avenues for going further. He chose to make that public.
4. When you slight command you slight ALL OF COMMAND. Now all of the Navy is deemed as uncaring and insensitive and unprepared. He can't have thought that there would be no repurcussions.
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PO3 (Join to see)
I fully agree with you... I wonder if he was feeling his own symptoms... I'm not defending him... In fact, I take it as a great offense... Because the moment he sent an unsecured message out about the vitals of his carrier, it emboldens the enemy to do something that they would not normally do... Not smart.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/magazine/navy-captain-crozier-positive-coronavirus.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/magazine/navy-captain-crozier-positive-coronavirus.html
Navy Captain Removed From Carrier Tests Positive for Covid-19
Captain Crozier was fired after a leak of a letter he had emailed to Navy leaders detailing the service's failures in dealing with a coronavirus outbreak on the U.S.S. Theodore Roosevelt.
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None, of us know for sure what happened, how many times he talked to his COC. But every boot Ensign knows dang well once you go outside the lifelines, you will get smacked down. I don't care how much you care for your crew, and you absolutely should, you can't care for your crew when you are relieved. The only way I can support his actions (letter, not treatment of crew) is if he has a documented trail of concerns he sent up his chain that was denied or disregarded. Otherwise, all he did was ensure he would no longer be the advocate for his crew.
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LT Brad McInnis
CPO Nate S. - At this point, none of use know for sure what went on for sure. I am sure he did the proper reporting, since if he blew them off, there are a lot of others that have separate reporting chains and that would have brought a lot of scrutiny.
Two other things I was thinking:
1) I have seen some CO's do some crazy stuff in prolonged crazy situations, as I am sure you have. That is why having a great team is so important to make sure you don't step on your ... well, go outside the lines!
2) There is an OPSEC portion of this that isn't getting a lot of play. He essentially told the world that a CVN is out of commission due to this virus. That is a hug no-no, and maybe something he didn't think about, but should have.
Two other things I was thinking:
1) I have seen some CO's do some crazy stuff in prolonged crazy situations, as I am sure you have. That is why having a great team is so important to make sure you don't step on your ... well, go outside the lines!
2) There is an OPSEC portion of this that isn't getting a lot of play. He essentially told the world that a CVN is out of commission due to this virus. That is a hug no-no, and maybe something he didn't think about, but should have.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
Regardless - everything has to stay secure. He can complain all day and night. But every single thing has to be secure.
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LT Brad McInnis
PO3 Donald Murphy - That is what will ultimately take him down, regardless of how many of his sailors back him.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
LT Brad McInnis - And I'm sure that ultimately - test of time - he was a really great guy. I had the fortune of working under fantastic "I would die for you" officers throughout my entire Naval career. And this guy was genuinely concerned. But the OpSec is a killer diller.
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As a retired CPO I applaud Capt Crozier for looking after his troops. Do we know for sure whether he alerted his CoC and the blew him off? Was he responsible personally for putting out the letter or was it one of his addressees? I’m also an ICU RN taking care of COVID patients. If I was in his place and had a chance of slowing the spread I’d take it. This disease is not to be taken lightly. Stay safe.
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CPO Nate S.
CPO Timothy Dyer BZ brother BZ!!!
Did you read what SCPO Jason McLaughlin posted regarding Col Teddy Roosevelt in Cuba. I had forgotten that history. Glad another CPO reminded us.
Did you read what SCPO Jason McLaughlin posted regarding Col Teddy Roosevelt in Cuba. I had forgotten that history. Glad another CPO reminded us.
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COL (Join to see)
No confirmation of what CoC knew or didn't know. No confirmation that CAPT Crozer informed CoC of his decision prior to the letter. No confirmation that he released letter to the newspaper. However, his actions can be viewed as taking care of his crew and using moral courage to take a position. He may never get promoted nor command again but suspect SecDef and POTUS are considering returning him to his billet, once he is medically cleared.
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Unless you believe the SECNAV's recent press release was a complete lie, you cannot condone the CAPT's actions. How many who are supporting his actions have read that statement?
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CPO Nate S.
CH (CPT) (Join to see) you know what makes things simple is when people post links that are easily accessible. Sir, WADR, posing your statement then forcing people to take time to search for the link is a real pain and of your unwillingness to participate in this discussion in a manner that is appropriate. Please, see the link you failed to offer.
https://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=112537
Now that I have read it the language it is similar to other language I have read for other incidents. I think in the coming days and weeks, the truth will reveal itself. But, lets look at some text:
"The CO (aka Capt Crozier) told my Chief of Staff that he was receiving those resources, and was fully aware of the Navy’s response, only asking that the he wished the crew could be evacuated faster."
- I assume you are an infectious disease specialist - correct?!?!?
- If "social isolation" was the main diver in stemming the spread on TR then short of halting flight deck operations (thus making a a nuclear aircraft carrier a C-4 CASREP weapons system) and establishing some sort of tenting on the flight deck with cots and then making space in the hanger bay compliant you are saying that taking a nuclear Aircraft Carrier out of commission is acceptable to you to preserve the feelings of a few Admirals.
- By making this statement the Admiral is admitting the # 1 issue was not the lack of the emerging support, but the more immediate actions the CAPT was requesting was to at least keep essential operations going with a minimal safe screw by immediately disembarking a portion of the crew for "social distancing". You cannot have it both ways, attempt to provide social distancing on a war ship and still do flight operations at C-1 status! It was not like the Battle of Midway or the Coral Sea. This enemy could not be seen!!!
"The next day, I spoke with the CO of the THEODORE ROOSEVELT myself, and this morning, I have spoken to the TR’s Carrier Strike Group Commander, RDML Stuart Baker. RDML Baker did not know about the letter before it was sent to him via email by the CO. It is important to understand that the Strike Group Commander, the CO’s immediate boss, is embarked on the Theodore Roosevelt, right down the passageway from him."
- Being a former carrier sailor and watching the interactions of such heavy weights CAPTAINS and ADMIRALS and just paying attention, I find it hard to believe the Strike Group Commander was not aware the medical situation before the letter. If, as would be protocol, the CO in concert with the Senior Medical Officer (SMO) would have filed a Personal CASREP/SITREP and as part of the MSG TO the Strike Group Commander would have notified! I know, because when completing a Medical SITREP all echelons of the CoC both operational and medical need to be notified, so this is PR crap!!! I have written or been asked to write such msgs and find this approach less than worthy!
- Going back to the first statement, the ADMIRAL admits "...the Department of the Navy had already mobilized significant resources for days in response to his previous requests...." Really? "...for days..." when apparently, and I would assume with the support and recommendation of his SMO he wanted to pull into Guam to off load some of the crew to achieve at least a modicum of "social distancing."
"Once I read the letter, I immediately called the Chief of Naval Operations, ADM Gilday, and the Commander, U.S. Pacific Fleet, ADM Aquilino. ADM Gilday had just read the letter that morning as well, and ADM Aquilino had it the day before. We had a teleconference within minutes of my reading of that article, including the Commander, SEVENTH Fleet, VADM William Merz, ADM Aquilino, ADM Gilday, the Department of the Navy’s Surgeon General, RADM Bruce Gillingham, and others. That evening, we held another teleconference with the entire chain of command."
- Really, the entire CoC including the Navy Surgeon General, who has at his disposal some of world's best infectious disease specialist anywhere.
- Again, a Personnel CASREP/SITREP should have gone out keeping the "entire CoC" especially 7th Fleet and 7th Fleet Medical aware. Such CASREPS/SITREPS also include courses of action taking place in real time and at times courses of action "being requested" to take place as preemptive planning (aka seeking permission) designed to maintain combat status. If the navy was "...mobilizing 'for days'..." a smart cub reporter would ask some serious questions about "...days...", especially if that reporter happened to know anything about requirements about the material or the personal CASREP / SITREP process.
"...I could reach no other conclusion than that Captain Crozier had allowed the complexity of his challenge with COVID breakout on the ship to overwhelm his ability to act professionally, when acting professionally was what was needed most...."
- This IMHO is a CYA statement designed to cast a shadow over his judgement.
- I have known many flight officers (aka pilots). Even the CAG (Commander of the Air Group) who headed my AW (Aviation Warfare) board when I was the 1st Hospital Corpsman in 5 yrs to earn my AW wings was someone I not ever believe was uninformed. The CAG was tough but more human than many knew. After two grueling hours passing my board, we just talked. It was funny, I had written a message for the SMO about a minor public health issue we had to communicate. The CAG knew I was a PMT (Preventive Medicine Specialist) and quizzed me about the msg. I learned then that people like the CAG and others of senior command status are in fact aware of even the most distant of details. Don't ever kid yourself that they are not. They may not want to know, but if CAPT Crozier was following CASREP/SITREP protocols, at least as i once knew them, the CoC knew.
- As to the language "...allowed the complexity...to overwhelm his ability..." I find interesting. My experience with JOs allows me to believe a JO would be overwhelmed, but I have not known a pilot whom I have gotten to know at the CDR (aka Col) or above level to be of "poor judgement" as they appear to be making the CAPT out to be. Not saying it could not or does not happen, rather, I have not seen it happen in that group of officers - pilots.
Finally, "...Let me be clear, you all have a duty to be transparent with your respective chains of command, even if you fear they might disagree with you. This duty requires courage, but it also requires respect for that chain of command..."
- Respect does not only go up the CoC, but it down as well!!!
In closing, "...To our Commanding Officers, it would be a mistake to view this decision as somehow not supportive of your duty to report problems, request help, protect your crews, and challenge assumptions as you see fit. This decision is not one of retribution. It is about confidence. It is not an indictment of character, but rather of judgement. While I do take issue with thevalidity of some of the points in Captain Crozier’s letter, he was absolutely correct in raising them...."
- In other words, the ADMIRAL had to say this, else his Commanders could not be afraid to act, when action could be required.
- Also, "...but rather of judgement...." It was CAPT Crozier's "judgement" apparently based on facts, that may not yet be in evidence which of course is not the Admiral's judgement. Judgement, like beauty, is in the "eye of the beholder"
WADR CH (CPT) (Join to see) you are "drinking the cool-aide" as a JO! I would expect that!
I question everything with WADR and did so on AD within the guides of the UCMJ and common sense. Does not mean I disobeyed orders or jumped my CoC. I often sought guidance at multiple levels. I had many closed doors with my OICs and still carried out 'lawful orders' even the ones I did not like, but lawful. But, none of them compromised the my C-1 readiness status.
As I learned on my 1st ship from both my first Master Chief and my first CO "If it ain't documented, it did not happen." I doubt a CO, especially a pilot and especially CAPT Crozier, did not cover his six in paper work, message traffic to engage the CoC.
Sir, things are not always as they may appear. Rest assured I will be the first one to make apology when the facts are presented in a manner I am willing to believe if Capt Crozier is in fact derelict, but until then I am giving the CO the benefit of the doubt!
I am just a humble Chief. Please, reread the language slowly and carefully!!! Let the words swirl around like good wine on your tongue or a good cheese. Chew on it a bit like a quality steak. The language is more revealing than you might think!
https://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=112537
Now that I have read it the language it is similar to other language I have read for other incidents. I think in the coming days and weeks, the truth will reveal itself. But, lets look at some text:
"The CO (aka Capt Crozier) told my Chief of Staff that he was receiving those resources, and was fully aware of the Navy’s response, only asking that the he wished the crew could be evacuated faster."
- I assume you are an infectious disease specialist - correct?!?!?
- If "social isolation" was the main diver in stemming the spread on TR then short of halting flight deck operations (thus making a a nuclear aircraft carrier a C-4 CASREP weapons system) and establishing some sort of tenting on the flight deck with cots and then making space in the hanger bay compliant you are saying that taking a nuclear Aircraft Carrier out of commission is acceptable to you to preserve the feelings of a few Admirals.
- By making this statement the Admiral is admitting the # 1 issue was not the lack of the emerging support, but the more immediate actions the CAPT was requesting was to at least keep essential operations going with a minimal safe screw by immediately disembarking a portion of the crew for "social distancing". You cannot have it both ways, attempt to provide social distancing on a war ship and still do flight operations at C-1 status! It was not like the Battle of Midway or the Coral Sea. This enemy could not be seen!!!
"The next day, I spoke with the CO of the THEODORE ROOSEVELT myself, and this morning, I have spoken to the TR’s Carrier Strike Group Commander, RDML Stuart Baker. RDML Baker did not know about the letter before it was sent to him via email by the CO. It is important to understand that the Strike Group Commander, the CO’s immediate boss, is embarked on the Theodore Roosevelt, right down the passageway from him."
- Being a former carrier sailor and watching the interactions of such heavy weights CAPTAINS and ADMIRALS and just paying attention, I find it hard to believe the Strike Group Commander was not aware the medical situation before the letter. If, as would be protocol, the CO in concert with the Senior Medical Officer (SMO) would have filed a Personal CASREP/SITREP and as part of the MSG TO the Strike Group Commander would have notified! I know, because when completing a Medical SITREP all echelons of the CoC both operational and medical need to be notified, so this is PR crap!!! I have written or been asked to write such msgs and find this approach less than worthy!
- Going back to the first statement, the ADMIRAL admits "...the Department of the Navy had already mobilized significant resources for days in response to his previous requests...." Really? "...for days..." when apparently, and I would assume with the support and recommendation of his SMO he wanted to pull into Guam to off load some of the crew to achieve at least a modicum of "social distancing."
"Once I read the letter, I immediately called the Chief of Naval Operations, ADM Gilday, and the Commander, U.S. Pacific Fleet, ADM Aquilino. ADM Gilday had just read the letter that morning as well, and ADM Aquilino had it the day before. We had a teleconference within minutes of my reading of that article, including the Commander, SEVENTH Fleet, VADM William Merz, ADM Aquilino, ADM Gilday, the Department of the Navy’s Surgeon General, RADM Bruce Gillingham, and others. That evening, we held another teleconference with the entire chain of command."
- Really, the entire CoC including the Navy Surgeon General, who has at his disposal some of world's best infectious disease specialist anywhere.
- Again, a Personnel CASREP/SITREP should have gone out keeping the "entire CoC" especially 7th Fleet and 7th Fleet Medical aware. Such CASREPS/SITREPS also include courses of action taking place in real time and at times courses of action "being requested" to take place as preemptive planning (aka seeking permission) designed to maintain combat status. If the navy was "...mobilizing 'for days'..." a smart cub reporter would ask some serious questions about "...days...", especially if that reporter happened to know anything about requirements about the material or the personal CASREP / SITREP process.
"...I could reach no other conclusion than that Captain Crozier had allowed the complexity of his challenge with COVID breakout on the ship to overwhelm his ability to act professionally, when acting professionally was what was needed most...."
- This IMHO is a CYA statement designed to cast a shadow over his judgement.
- I have known many flight officers (aka pilots). Even the CAG (Commander of the Air Group) who headed my AW (Aviation Warfare) board when I was the 1st Hospital Corpsman in 5 yrs to earn my AW wings was someone I not ever believe was uninformed. The CAG was tough but more human than many knew. After two grueling hours passing my board, we just talked. It was funny, I had written a message for the SMO about a minor public health issue we had to communicate. The CAG knew I was a PMT (Preventive Medicine Specialist) and quizzed me about the msg. I learned then that people like the CAG and others of senior command status are in fact aware of even the most distant of details. Don't ever kid yourself that they are not. They may not want to know, but if CAPT Crozier was following CASREP/SITREP protocols, at least as i once knew them, the CoC knew.
- As to the language "...allowed the complexity...to overwhelm his ability..." I find interesting. My experience with JOs allows me to believe a JO would be overwhelmed, but I have not known a pilot whom I have gotten to know at the CDR (aka Col) or above level to be of "poor judgement" as they appear to be making the CAPT out to be. Not saying it could not or does not happen, rather, I have not seen it happen in that group of officers - pilots.
Finally, "...Let me be clear, you all have a duty to be transparent with your respective chains of command, even if you fear they might disagree with you. This duty requires courage, but it also requires respect for that chain of command..."
- Respect does not only go up the CoC, but it down as well!!!
In closing, "...To our Commanding Officers, it would be a mistake to view this decision as somehow not supportive of your duty to report problems, request help, protect your crews, and challenge assumptions as you see fit. This decision is not one of retribution. It is about confidence. It is not an indictment of character, but rather of judgement. While I do take issue with thevalidity of some of the points in Captain Crozier’s letter, he was absolutely correct in raising them...."
- In other words, the ADMIRAL had to say this, else his Commanders could not be afraid to act, when action could be required.
- Also, "...but rather of judgement...." It was CAPT Crozier's "judgement" apparently based on facts, that may not yet be in evidence which of course is not the Admiral's judgement. Judgement, like beauty, is in the "eye of the beholder"
WADR CH (CPT) (Join to see) you are "drinking the cool-aide" as a JO! I would expect that!
I question everything with WADR and did so on AD within the guides of the UCMJ and common sense. Does not mean I disobeyed orders or jumped my CoC. I often sought guidance at multiple levels. I had many closed doors with my OICs and still carried out 'lawful orders' even the ones I did not like, but lawful. But, none of them compromised the my C-1 readiness status.
As I learned on my 1st ship from both my first Master Chief and my first CO "If it ain't documented, it did not happen." I doubt a CO, especially a pilot and especially CAPT Crozier, did not cover his six in paper work, message traffic to engage the CoC.
Sir, things are not always as they may appear. Rest assured I will be the first one to make apology when the facts are presented in a manner I am willing to believe if Capt Crozier is in fact derelict, but until then I am giving the CO the benefit of the doubt!
I am just a humble Chief. Please, reread the language slowly and carefully!!! Let the words swirl around like good wine on your tongue or a good cheese. Chew on it a bit like a quality steak. The language is more revealing than you might think!
Statement From SECNAV on Relief of CO Aboard USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN 71)
Statement from the Acting Secretary of the Navy, Thomas B. Modly, regarding the relief of the Commanding Officer of the USS Theodore Roosevelt.
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CH (CPT) (Join to see)
CPO Nate S. Since I do not have experience posting such a link, the lack thereof does not evidence an "unwillingness" to participate in an "appropriate" manner. It was simple question. I'm sorry you find my post inappropriate. I'll gladly decline to participate further. For the good of community and "appropriate" discussion, however, I humbly suggest you withhold judgement unless proved otherwise.
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CPO Nate S.
CH (CPT) (Join to see) - Sir, understood. Please participate!!!
You have obviously learned how to insert a name as you did in the above response and since this platform is "no different" than normal email, Twitter or Facebook the ability to cut and paste links is no different in those platforms I surprised. I am in my 60's and figured this out. I am surprised that being younger than me this would not be something you would have already grasped - cutting and pasting. Of course my specialty is research and perhaps it is not yours. Again, forgive me I did not realize you did not understand this site as is email, Twitter, Facebook and other sites have the same basic platform features.
My response was not so much at you (although I do apologize if I hurt your feelings), but toward those who post responses trying to make appoint from a "so called" reference and who have really not studied that reference then try to make the point they think they are trying to make using that reference.
Please continue to participate, as healthy debate is good. But, if you already use FB, Twitter and email, or have ever type a document in MS Word and cut and pasted in the media, this is no different. I will admit where some things are put once uploaded frustrates me a bit, I fully understand why the platform designers have organized it in this manner.
Here is a method I use. Often times I open MS Notepad. Then I type my responses in that media including placement of links. This allows me to get my spacing and flow right. Then I save that response to my RP folder. Then I copy that response and paste it into a reply. At this point RP is very good like MS Word of identifying "red line stuff" possible miss spellings. I try hard, some times I fail, to make sure my response as a spell and grammar checked as possible. There are also times I leave out an article (e.g. "a", "the", etc.) I think my "old eyes" saw and after seeing once I have pressed the comment button have to re-edit it. So, I am fallible, and after all I am human. I suppose in closing, I was also responding to your tone! Again, I apologize if I offended you.
By the way. It does not matter if I or anyone else thinks or does not think your post are appropriate. What matters is how you respond to them and stand up to them, and NOT withdraw from your RIGHT to post. So, Chaplain, this line "... I'll gladly decline to participate further. For the good of community and "appropriate" discussion..." greatly disturbs me. I expect my Chaplains to not capitulate, rather to fight with the weapons they are trained to use, and to use well!!! Again, I apologize if I offended you.
You have obviously learned how to insert a name as you did in the above response and since this platform is "no different" than normal email, Twitter or Facebook the ability to cut and paste links is no different in those platforms I surprised. I am in my 60's and figured this out. I am surprised that being younger than me this would not be something you would have already grasped - cutting and pasting. Of course my specialty is research and perhaps it is not yours. Again, forgive me I did not realize you did not understand this site as is email, Twitter, Facebook and other sites have the same basic platform features.
My response was not so much at you (although I do apologize if I hurt your feelings), but toward those who post responses trying to make appoint from a "so called" reference and who have really not studied that reference then try to make the point they think they are trying to make using that reference.
Please continue to participate, as healthy debate is good. But, if you already use FB, Twitter and email, or have ever type a document in MS Word and cut and pasted in the media, this is no different. I will admit where some things are put once uploaded frustrates me a bit, I fully understand why the platform designers have organized it in this manner.
Here is a method I use. Often times I open MS Notepad. Then I type my responses in that media including placement of links. This allows me to get my spacing and flow right. Then I save that response to my RP folder. Then I copy that response and paste it into a reply. At this point RP is very good like MS Word of identifying "red line stuff" possible miss spellings. I try hard, some times I fail, to make sure my response as a spell and grammar checked as possible. There are also times I leave out an article (e.g. "a", "the", etc.) I think my "old eyes" saw and after seeing once I have pressed the comment button have to re-edit it. So, I am fallible, and after all I am human. I suppose in closing, I was also responding to your tone! Again, I apologize if I offended you.
By the way. It does not matter if I or anyone else thinks or does not think your post are appropriate. What matters is how you respond to them and stand up to them, and NOT withdraw from your RIGHT to post. So, Chaplain, this line "... I'll gladly decline to participate further. For the good of community and "appropriate" discussion..." greatly disturbs me. I expect my Chaplains to not capitulate, rather to fight with the weapons they are trained to use, and to use well!!! Again, I apologize if I offended you.
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1SG Billye Jackson
SECNAV "It was the way in which he did this, by not working through and with his Strike Group Commander to develop a strategy to resolve the problems he raised, by not sending the letter to and through his chain of command, by not protecting the sensitive nature of the information contained within the letter appropriately, and lastly by not reaching out to me directly to voice is concerns, after that avenue had been provided to him through my team, that was unacceptable."
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Captain Brett Crozier violated his chain of command, and inadvertently leaked a memo that endangered the operational security of the carrier. But he did it to take care of his crew, fully aware of the shit storm it would bring down and the impact it would have on his career, because a true leader is the servant of his subordinates.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
It could have backfired. Painfully. Think about how many news outlets claim "China's itching for war with us" etc. What if any of those stories are true? Okay. Now I - China - know that the Navy is incapable of taking care of sick sailors on one of its most important ships - a nuclear aircraft carrier. What do I need to do to strike now? If that Navy can't fix a carrier, it must be hell on board a lowly destroyer, right? Iran. North Korea. Doesn't take much for people to read that. This is why he has a secure channel. He should have used it.
He is in peacetime on a peacetime Navy ship. He should know by this point of his career that yelling doesn't turn factory keys. If the Navy doesn't have it, the Navy doesn't have it. Now as a result - lets assume that the Navy really didn't have money set aside for virus attack. Of course congress will just write us a check to fix it, right? Ha ha! No. The Navy will have to grab money from somewhere just like other branches. What if that somewhere that they grab from is fire safety equipment? Now his ship won't get updates that were scheduled to its fire fighting equipment. What if there's a fire next year and the un-fixed gear causing tons of burned sailors? Ooops. He honestly made the admiral's job easy who fired him.
He is in peacetime on a peacetime Navy ship. He should know by this point of his career that yelling doesn't turn factory keys. If the Navy doesn't have it, the Navy doesn't have it. Now as a result - lets assume that the Navy really didn't have money set aside for virus attack. Of course congress will just write us a check to fix it, right? Ha ha! No. The Navy will have to grab money from somewhere just like other branches. What if that somewhere that they grab from is fire safety equipment? Now his ship won't get updates that were scheduled to its fire fighting equipment. What if there's a fire next year and the un-fixed gear causing tons of burned sailors? Ooops. He honestly made the admiral's job easy who fired him.
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PO3 (Join to see)
PO3 Donald Murphy - You know I'm realizing that people outside of the Navy never have to think of how (through the training) we might have to lock hatches to save the ship. Well we try to save crew,,, of course,,, but people are not near a hatch,,, It gets closed... After reading many comments this keeps coming to mind.
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O Sailor always takes the hard right over the easy wrong. Promote ahead of peers.
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