Posted on Apr 3, 2020
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(Update: 14 Jun 2020) - While this story remains in the news (https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/06/19/navy-wont-reinstate-crozier-fires-1-star-over-poor-decision-making.html), we are reminded of what is today!!!
On this Father's Day and Flag Day for 2020 it might serve all of us to think about all the fathers and mothers too who are serving away from home and on whom their fellow soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines and coastguardsmen rely. While many have voiced opinions on many sides of this event, and its implications are not yet fully felt, the point is simply this quote:
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty (aka freedom)"
It does not matter who made the quote often attributed to a particular Founding Father, but with little tangible evidence to verify that attribution; rather, it is the meaning in the words that are much more important!!! In the world of politics, we are reminded, that the mastery of the gymnastic linguistics involved in the defense of an indefensible position is the tangled web woven by the venom of the spiders that need absolute power.
With > 22.5 views, >1.3 K likes and >370 comments as of this date this post has had a lot of play. I want to thank all those the posted. Have a great Father's day, Flag Day and think deeply about the event that will be soon upon us - the 4th of July. Our nation is difficult, but in that difficulty has always been hope. I continue to pray that our nation of men, of women, of black, of white, of so many others learns that our common humanity it more important than our, often contrived differences. We'd be wise to remember that:
ALL people have "...certain unalienable rights..." and "...that among thee are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness..." None of which can ever be truly achieved when small minds are willing to act out of fear and ignorance to save only themselves and deny these "...unalienable rights..." to the least among us who are in our care!
Blessing to all....
-------------
(Update: 13 Apr 2020) - Thank you SGT (Join to see) for this "interesting update" regarding the Pentagon's "worries" over CAPT Crozier's actions (https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/pentagon-worries-capt-crozier-s-concern-for-his-sailors-may-be-contagious--3). Humm. So, a Pentagon spokesperson could have actually said. “...This makes us sitting here in the Pentagon look like out-of-touch asses....” Now that is interesting!?!?!?!?!
Oh, I love the phrase "Crozier-20" - funnyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!
But, in all seriousness, if you are going to train officers and senior enlisted leaders that taking care of the troops is the #1 priority when it comes to being resilient, mission focused and combat ready, you should expect - the truth.
But, it is the update (https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/rising-navy-coronavirus-cases-put-heightened-tempo-into-question?loc=similar_main&pos=0&type=qrc) from PO1 William "Chip" Nagel that makes the update from SGT (Join to see) not just funny from Duffelblog, but actually poignant. Humm!
I'd bet good money that the CO has this over his desk in his stateroom: http://www.worldfuturefund.org/Documents/maninarena.htm
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(Update: 09 Apr 2020) - Thank you SSG Robert Mark Odom for this intel - https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/roosevelt-sailor-with-covid-19-found-unresponsive-in-guam.
-------------------------------------------------
Dear RP Family,
By now, the world knows the CO, CAPTAIN B.E. Crozier, of the USS Theodore Rooselvet (CVN-71) has been relieved of command for a letter he wrote dated 30 March 2020 regarding Coronavirus.
CAPT Crozier's letter (https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Exclusive-Captain-of-aircraft-carrier-with-15167883.php) is interesting and reminds me of another CO I once gladly served, CAPT Howick. Capt Howick, I believe, would have taken the same action as Capt Crozier, based on my service with him during an evolution at REFTRA in GITMO just prior to our deploying as part of Desert Shield.
Capt Crozier, stated the obvious impact and outcomes of an uncontrolled disease state on an advanced ship of war. Is that not what a competent war fighter does? So the YES's are:
- Yes, our enemies now know (perhaps have always known) how rapidly they can degrade our at sea war fighting forces with a simple 'invisible bug';
- Yes, I am sure the DoD, especially the US Navy, did not want to reveal this as I am sure it scared the crap out of the CoC;
- Yes, the families of those sailors are scared, but I think those who are honest with themselves are glad their sailors or marines served with this Capt. as much as I was proud to serve a CO like USN Capt. Howick or USMC Col. Doyle in the 1980s.
Perhaps what Capt. Crozier was thinking about was what Sun Tzu was reported to have said: "So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak." His mighty warship was weakening and he knew it. The CoC was apparently not listening, so he took the only course of action that was seemly left to him in order to take care of "his crew - aka his shipmates" and "attempt to maintain mission readiness."
He knew the risk the letter entailed. While he has been relieved, I think he will be asked to retire; and, I am not sure he will be Courts-Marshaled for this "seeming insubordination" as such an act by DoD could be spun in the media, if they chose to, into greater questions that would expose the military's ability to protect our own in times of this kind of crisis. He did not commit a USA LT William Calley or a USN Chief Gallagher type event from their 'personal actions'. If anything, from his letter he has outlined courses of action that could become military wide, if not US Navy, medical doctrine going forward under similar future conditions and provide a better process for OPSEC under such conditions. Even when we get a handle on testing and treatment, there will be other "hidden COVID-19 type" threats. The question should be for the CoC, is how will we now keep our war fighters at sea safer and mission responsive, especially aboard one of the most powerful platforms in our arsenal?
I have been a carrier sailor and I am sure the CMO and Senior PMT along with the entire Medical Department on TR are busting ass. In closing, I remember the singular case of Legionnaires disease we got aboard the USS Coral Sea (CV-43) when to the Med in 1989. The young (20 yo) sailor died about 10 days after arrival on board after his leave. I was a new PMT then, it was interesting times.
Finally, my sister is a DoD Civlian in the ME and she tells me that troops are coughing all over in her particular indoor-based operations. This operation is not mission essential. Apparently, no PPE or social distancing is being accomplished when I last spoke with her 26 Mar (4 days before CAPT Crozier's letter.)
In any event, just sharing some thoughts from an old sea dawg!
Blessing always to the RP family,
Question: Did CAPTAIN Crozier ultimately show "genuine leadership" or "fool-heartiness" by the penning of this letter and transmitting it in the open?
BTW, if you want to understand how sailors and marines feel about those that lead them under difficult circumstances this video might tell you something - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpNT5KUYhTM.
On this Father's Day and Flag Day for 2020 it might serve all of us to think about all the fathers and mothers too who are serving away from home and on whom their fellow soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines and coastguardsmen rely. While many have voiced opinions on many sides of this event, and its implications are not yet fully felt, the point is simply this quote:
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty (aka freedom)"
It does not matter who made the quote often attributed to a particular Founding Father, but with little tangible evidence to verify that attribution; rather, it is the meaning in the words that are much more important!!! In the world of politics, we are reminded, that the mastery of the gymnastic linguistics involved in the defense of an indefensible position is the tangled web woven by the venom of the spiders that need absolute power.
With > 22.5 views, >1.3 K likes and >370 comments as of this date this post has had a lot of play. I want to thank all those the posted. Have a great Father's day, Flag Day and think deeply about the event that will be soon upon us - the 4th of July. Our nation is difficult, but in that difficulty has always been hope. I continue to pray that our nation of men, of women, of black, of white, of so many others learns that our common humanity it more important than our, often contrived differences. We'd be wise to remember that:
ALL people have "...certain unalienable rights..." and "...that among thee are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness..." None of which can ever be truly achieved when small minds are willing to act out of fear and ignorance to save only themselves and deny these "...unalienable rights..." to the least among us who are in our care!
Blessing to all....
-------------
(Update: 13 Apr 2020) - Thank you SGT (Join to see) for this "interesting update" regarding the Pentagon's "worries" over CAPT Crozier's actions (https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/pentagon-worries-capt-crozier-s-concern-for-his-sailors-may-be-contagious--3). Humm. So, a Pentagon spokesperson could have actually said. “...This makes us sitting here in the Pentagon look like out-of-touch asses....” Now that is interesting!?!?!?!?!
Oh, I love the phrase "Crozier-20" - funnyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!
But, in all seriousness, if you are going to train officers and senior enlisted leaders that taking care of the troops is the #1 priority when it comes to being resilient, mission focused and combat ready, you should expect - the truth.
But, it is the update (https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/rising-navy-coronavirus-cases-put-heightened-tempo-into-question?loc=similar_main&pos=0&type=qrc) from PO1 William "Chip" Nagel that makes the update from SGT (Join to see) not just funny from Duffelblog, but actually poignant. Humm!
I'd bet good money that the CO has this over his desk in his stateroom: http://www.worldfuturefund.org/Documents/maninarena.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------------
(Update: 09 Apr 2020) - Thank you SSG Robert Mark Odom for this intel - https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/roosevelt-sailor-with-covid-19-found-unresponsive-in-guam.
-------------------------------------------------
Dear RP Family,
By now, the world knows the CO, CAPTAIN B.E. Crozier, of the USS Theodore Rooselvet (CVN-71) has been relieved of command for a letter he wrote dated 30 March 2020 regarding Coronavirus.
CAPT Crozier's letter (https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Exclusive-Captain-of-aircraft-carrier-with-15167883.php) is interesting and reminds me of another CO I once gladly served, CAPT Howick. Capt Howick, I believe, would have taken the same action as Capt Crozier, based on my service with him during an evolution at REFTRA in GITMO just prior to our deploying as part of Desert Shield.
Capt Crozier, stated the obvious impact and outcomes of an uncontrolled disease state on an advanced ship of war. Is that not what a competent war fighter does? So the YES's are:
- Yes, our enemies now know (perhaps have always known) how rapidly they can degrade our at sea war fighting forces with a simple 'invisible bug';
- Yes, I am sure the DoD, especially the US Navy, did not want to reveal this as I am sure it scared the crap out of the CoC;
- Yes, the families of those sailors are scared, but I think those who are honest with themselves are glad their sailors or marines served with this Capt. as much as I was proud to serve a CO like USN Capt. Howick or USMC Col. Doyle in the 1980s.
Perhaps what Capt. Crozier was thinking about was what Sun Tzu was reported to have said: "So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak." His mighty warship was weakening and he knew it. The CoC was apparently not listening, so he took the only course of action that was seemly left to him in order to take care of "his crew - aka his shipmates" and "attempt to maintain mission readiness."
He knew the risk the letter entailed. While he has been relieved, I think he will be asked to retire; and, I am not sure he will be Courts-Marshaled for this "seeming insubordination" as such an act by DoD could be spun in the media, if they chose to, into greater questions that would expose the military's ability to protect our own in times of this kind of crisis. He did not commit a USA LT William Calley or a USN Chief Gallagher type event from their 'personal actions'. If anything, from his letter he has outlined courses of action that could become military wide, if not US Navy, medical doctrine going forward under similar future conditions and provide a better process for OPSEC under such conditions. Even when we get a handle on testing and treatment, there will be other "hidden COVID-19 type" threats. The question should be for the CoC, is how will we now keep our war fighters at sea safer and mission responsive, especially aboard one of the most powerful platforms in our arsenal?
I have been a carrier sailor and I am sure the CMO and Senior PMT along with the entire Medical Department on TR are busting ass. In closing, I remember the singular case of Legionnaires disease we got aboard the USS Coral Sea (CV-43) when to the Med in 1989. The young (20 yo) sailor died about 10 days after arrival on board after his leave. I was a new PMT then, it was interesting times.
Finally, my sister is a DoD Civlian in the ME and she tells me that troops are coughing all over in her particular indoor-based operations. This operation is not mission essential. Apparently, no PPE or social distancing is being accomplished when I last spoke with her 26 Mar (4 days before CAPT Crozier's letter.)
In any event, just sharing some thoughts from an old sea dawg!
Blessing always to the RP family,
Question: Did CAPTAIN Crozier ultimately show "genuine leadership" or "fool-heartiness" by the penning of this letter and transmitting it in the open?
BTW, if you want to understand how sailors and marines feel about those that lead them under difficult circumstances this video might tell you something - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpNT5KUYhTM.
CAPT
Mission
Integrity
Political Correctness
Medical
Edited 4 y ago
Posted 4 y ago
Responses: 86
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Happens when you are attempting to do the right thing. Look at Flynn and that idiot Joe Biden and Obama. Why does Michael Obama not run? Mike ladyboy. From Kenya
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First of all the three questions in this thread are typical of ill formed surveys. There is way more nuance to the issue. But to opine one needs to vote...sooo..,
The concern, intent and need for help were legitimate. His method was of an officer who demonstrated severe disregard for a whole number national security issues. The letter should have been classified top secret NOFORN at the least. He could have CASREP’d the ship for personnel. He revealed his opinion of his ship’s operational capabilities to the enemy. His ship, a carrier, is a unique piece of sovereign USA nuclear capable real estate, a sea going airbase. One of the problems, in my opinion, is that carrier COs get command in a very unique way as they seldom if ever serve on the deck plates of the surface force. Theirs is a very specialized and, dare I say, sheltered career path. The acting SECNAV was right on but also stupid in his stating a public opinion and deserved to be fired as well. The CO acted in an impetuous manner equivalent to the current Commander in Chief. Naval Officers do serve at the pleasure of the President but should hold to a higher standard when necessary.
The concern, intent and need for help were legitimate. His method was of an officer who demonstrated severe disregard for a whole number national security issues. The letter should have been classified top secret NOFORN at the least. He could have CASREP’d the ship for personnel. He revealed his opinion of his ship’s operational capabilities to the enemy. His ship, a carrier, is a unique piece of sovereign USA nuclear capable real estate, a sea going airbase. One of the problems, in my opinion, is that carrier COs get command in a very unique way as they seldom if ever serve on the deck plates of the surface force. Theirs is a very specialized and, dare I say, sheltered career path. The acting SECNAV was right on but also stupid in his stating a public opinion and deserved to be fired as well. The CO acted in an impetuous manner equivalent to the current Commander in Chief. Naval Officers do serve at the pleasure of the President but should hold to a higher standard when necessary.
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CPO Nate S.
LCDR Mike Morrissey Sir, WADR, I was an Air Craft Carrier sailor and worked for a great CO and XO. I suspect the TR CO did CASREP for Personnel the ship as any good CO would have done that 1st. We had a case of Legionaries disease in the late 80's. Medical worked our asses off to save this kid, but he died none the less.
Believe me when I tell you the our SMO and CO spoke 2-3 times a day about the case and what it meant. I have no doubt, the TR CO did CASREP the ship in the manner you suggested as a result of medical projections and his concern for assuring operational readiness and got no joy up the CoC.
What if, the CO had been ordered into the South China Sea and was not able to effectively launch sorties for whatever reason he was ordered to do so and he had not kept the CoC informed by usual measures of potential mission degradation, he would surely have been derelict in his duties and the headlines in rags like the NYT, etc. would perhaps read "Trump's Carrier unable to Sustain Operations due to Crippling COVID infection rate. TR CO to receive a Courts Martial some Sources say!". What then, sir, what then? Believe me, I am not suggesting that every CO now just put everything out there, very far from it!!! That would make NO sense, common or otherwise! Yet, what choice between a rock and a hard place did he really have that did not involve his career going in the toilet on way or the other. Every pilot knows he is ONLY as good as the plane captain an Enlisted sailor who works to maintain the pilot's plane at C-1 status to accomplished the mission. Even if every pilot could fly, and 100% of the Enlisted who main the $40+M air frames were sidelined would the pilots then fix and fly their own planes? An Aircraft Carrier is not a surface vessel, I have served on a few of those as well.
By the time a CO is picked to command it is about their ability to command successfully at lower leadership levels with sustained superior performance, else they are typically not picked, yet some "politically slip through", for command. Perhaps like CMC, ForceMC or FleetMC or they are not selected for these positions. Let's take WWII Admiral Spruance. If you remember, Spruance had been a well healed cruiser division commander, yet he had no experience handling carrier-air combat operations. Of course when Halsey recommended Spruance to Nimitz, after Halsey was beached for shingles, Spruance did not magically grow pilot wings to command. Yet, Spruance was guided by Nmitiz's words "When in Command - Command"! And, because he took "command" he was victorious at Midway. My point is this, leadership is not dependent upon on a "...carrier CO getting command...by serving on the deck plates of the surface force...." It depends on sustained superior performance. Yet, I will admit that being a "striker HM" and having served in deck division first did help me be a much better Corpsman on a number of levels, especially as I earned my SW/AW designations gaining even more respect in the process.
Also, you are correct the acting SECNAV was an arrogant ass and should have been launch via catapult.
In any event, would you want a general medical office performing immediate heart surgery on you or would you prefer someone, say a heart surgeon, who is actually trained in that specialty. Today, we are a navy of extreme specialization and that is a double edge sword in many ways.
In closing, only time will tell. Think of it this way, the pressure on every medical department in the fleet has just been placed front a center as part of improvements in overall readiness and the dialogues that SMO SMDRs and IDC SMDRs will now be having with COs is about better ways to protect the fleet and maintain operational readiness.
You may not like the way he did things, yet we now know something that is important... what do you think that is......?
Believe me when I tell you the our SMO and CO spoke 2-3 times a day about the case and what it meant. I have no doubt, the TR CO did CASREP the ship in the manner you suggested as a result of medical projections and his concern for assuring operational readiness and got no joy up the CoC.
What if, the CO had been ordered into the South China Sea and was not able to effectively launch sorties for whatever reason he was ordered to do so and he had not kept the CoC informed by usual measures of potential mission degradation, he would surely have been derelict in his duties and the headlines in rags like the NYT, etc. would perhaps read "Trump's Carrier unable to Sustain Operations due to Crippling COVID infection rate. TR CO to receive a Courts Martial some Sources say!". What then, sir, what then? Believe me, I am not suggesting that every CO now just put everything out there, very far from it!!! That would make NO sense, common or otherwise! Yet, what choice between a rock and a hard place did he really have that did not involve his career going in the toilet on way or the other. Every pilot knows he is ONLY as good as the plane captain an Enlisted sailor who works to maintain the pilot's plane at C-1 status to accomplished the mission. Even if every pilot could fly, and 100% of the Enlisted who main the $40+M air frames were sidelined would the pilots then fix and fly their own planes? An Aircraft Carrier is not a surface vessel, I have served on a few of those as well.
By the time a CO is picked to command it is about their ability to command successfully at lower leadership levels with sustained superior performance, else they are typically not picked, yet some "politically slip through", for command. Perhaps like CMC, ForceMC or FleetMC or they are not selected for these positions. Let's take WWII Admiral Spruance. If you remember, Spruance had been a well healed cruiser division commander, yet he had no experience handling carrier-air combat operations. Of course when Halsey recommended Spruance to Nimitz, after Halsey was beached for shingles, Spruance did not magically grow pilot wings to command. Yet, Spruance was guided by Nmitiz's words "When in Command - Command"! And, because he took "command" he was victorious at Midway. My point is this, leadership is not dependent upon on a "...carrier CO getting command...by serving on the deck plates of the surface force...." It depends on sustained superior performance. Yet, I will admit that being a "striker HM" and having served in deck division first did help me be a much better Corpsman on a number of levels, especially as I earned my SW/AW designations gaining even more respect in the process.
Also, you are correct the acting SECNAV was an arrogant ass and should have been launch via catapult.
In any event, would you want a general medical office performing immediate heart surgery on you or would you prefer someone, say a heart surgeon, who is actually trained in that specialty. Today, we are a navy of extreme specialization and that is a double edge sword in many ways.
In closing, only time will tell. Think of it this way, the pressure on every medical department in the fleet has just been placed front a center as part of improvements in overall readiness and the dialogues that SMO SMDRs and IDC SMDRs will now be having with COs is about better ways to protect the fleet and maintain operational readiness.
You may not like the way he did things, yet we now know something that is important... what do you think that is......?
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I think the Skipper should had received a Captain’s Mast with a written Reprimand placed in his Naval Record. And, perhaps a One Star Demotion?
But if anything else, I think he should be reinstated back onboard the Roosevelt, as the Skipper.
I believe he has learned a lesson from his actions, regardless if he felt & thought at the time. what he had done was the right thing to do.
Like any military subordinate, it is instilled in each and everyone of them to “GO THROUGH THE CHAIN OF COMMAND!”
Of course, maybe all of the facts had never been released to the Public? The Skipper may had spoken or correspondent with his “high-up”, who may had denied any action or was procrastinating to do something?
And when one starts to “Leap-Frog” over a superior, ones actions may result in stiffer consequences; even jeopardize ones career!
It’s just so unfortunate under the circumstances! But I truly believe the Skipper did not expect the severe outcome!
How many more deaths would it had taken, before the hierarchy of the Navy and Pentagon would had taken the appropriate action to save the lives of any additional Sailors and Officers aboard any Naval Vessel, before it’s too late?
One life is too many!
But if anything else, I think he should be reinstated back onboard the Roosevelt, as the Skipper.
I believe he has learned a lesson from his actions, regardless if he felt & thought at the time. what he had done was the right thing to do.
Like any military subordinate, it is instilled in each and everyone of them to “GO THROUGH THE CHAIN OF COMMAND!”
Of course, maybe all of the facts had never been released to the Public? The Skipper may had spoken or correspondent with his “high-up”, who may had denied any action or was procrastinating to do something?
And when one starts to “Leap-Frog” over a superior, ones actions may result in stiffer consequences; even jeopardize ones career!
It’s just so unfortunate under the circumstances! But I truly believe the Skipper did not expect the severe outcome!
How many more deaths would it had taken, before the hierarchy of the Navy and Pentagon would had taken the appropriate action to save the lives of any additional Sailors and Officers aboard any Naval Vessel, before it’s too late?
One life is too many!
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We have now seen (or August heard about) The navies most senior Admiral Reporting that maybe the Navy overreacted by relieving this captain. I think it was right and I look forward to hearing more about the story as it comes out over the next couple weeks.
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The Navy seems to be experiencing a slew of problems, from collisions at sea, planes going down, sailors captured and the list goes on. It's so bad, they fired the 7th Fleet Commander, but the problems continue. And now we have Capt. Crozier and the USS Roosevelt. I'm not a Navy man, but it's hard to ignore all of the incidents and problems and not think there is an underlying problem. Oh, and I absolutely believe Capt. Crozier was wrong. One of the most powerful weapons in our inventory should not be airing dirty laundry and giving up it's OPSEC.
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His intentions were good, but why did he not go thru his Chain Of Command.. so he was wrong in that aspect, but morally he was trying to get the quickest attention to protecting his men.
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I think he did the right thing especially for the men and women who are under him. His actions were fair and justified. From the time he reported his incident to his superiors and to the present day his crew have taken a beating. It’s not just his Carrier that’s involved. The Reagan, the Nimitz are just the few. I’m glad I’m not a politician because what this Country’s leadership by example has shown us that we are doomed if no take charge of the POTUS daily charade in his briefing.
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It's not entirely certain if he is even the one that leaked the letter, but regardless that is what good leadership does. Look out for his own.
Our CiC sure as hell wasn't going to look out for them.
Our CiC sure as hell wasn't going to look out for them.
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I think he did the right thing to try to save the lives of his sailors. I strongly believe had it not been publicized it would have been ignored. There would have been a great number of deaths before the Navy took any action. He would have been at fault either way because the military will always blame the one in charge. It is better that he sacrificed his job for thier lives and he is a brave man for doing so. All of my siblings are Navy and personally I worry that the Navy doesn't ever take care of their sailors. The military in general is awful at caring for the welfare of thier people and we who serve are still people with real lives and families. We lose many in training accidents because of poor leadership so I applaud this man for doing the right thing. His integrity might have cost him his job but he will never be any less than a hero. The Navy can't take away how people feel about him and most of us feel he is one of the best.
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