Posted on Apr 3, 2020
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(Update: 14 Jun 2020) - While this story remains in the news (https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/06/19/navy-wont-reinstate-crozier-fires-1-star-over-poor-decision-making.html), we are reminded of what is today!!!
On this Father's Day and Flag Day for 2020 it might serve all of us to think about all the fathers and mothers too who are serving away from home and on whom their fellow soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines and coastguardsmen rely. While many have voiced opinions on many sides of this event, and its implications are not yet fully felt, the point is simply this quote:
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty (aka freedom)"
It does not matter who made the quote often attributed to a particular Founding Father, but with little tangible evidence to verify that attribution; rather, it is the meaning in the words that are much more important!!! In the world of politics, we are reminded, that the mastery of the gymnastic linguistics involved in the defense of an indefensible position is the tangled web woven by the venom of the spiders that need absolute power.
With > 22.5 views, >1.3 K likes and >370 comments as of this date this post has had a lot of play. I want to thank all those the posted. Have a great Father's day, Flag Day and think deeply about the event that will be soon upon us - the 4th of July. Our nation is difficult, but in that difficulty has always been hope. I continue to pray that our nation of men, of women, of black, of white, of so many others learns that our common humanity it more important than our, often contrived differences. We'd be wise to remember that:
ALL people have "...certain unalienable rights..." and "...that among thee are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness..." None of which can ever be truly achieved when small minds are willing to act out of fear and ignorance to save only themselves and deny these "...unalienable rights..." to the least among us who are in our care!
Blessing to all....
-------------
(Update: 13 Apr 2020) - Thank you SGT (Join to see) for this "interesting update" regarding the Pentagon's "worries" over CAPT Crozier's actions (https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/pentagon-worries-capt-crozier-s-concern-for-his-sailors-may-be-contagious--3). Humm. So, a Pentagon spokesperson could have actually said. “...This makes us sitting here in the Pentagon look like out-of-touch asses....” Now that is interesting!?!?!?!?!
Oh, I love the phrase "Crozier-20" - funnyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!
But, in all seriousness, if you are going to train officers and senior enlisted leaders that taking care of the troops is the #1 priority when it comes to being resilient, mission focused and combat ready, you should expect - the truth.
But, it is the update (https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/rising-navy-coronavirus-cases-put-heightened-tempo-into-question?loc=similar_main&pos=0&type=qrc) from PO1 William "Chip" Nagel that makes the update from SGT (Join to see) not just funny from Duffelblog, but actually poignant. Humm!
I'd bet good money that the CO has this over his desk in his stateroom: http://www.worldfuturefund.org/Documents/maninarena.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------------
(Update: 09 Apr 2020) - Thank you SSG Robert Mark Odom for this intel - https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/roosevelt-sailor-with-covid-19-found-unresponsive-in-guam.
-------------------------------------------------
Dear RP Family,
By now, the world knows the CO, CAPTAIN B.E. Crozier, of the USS Theodore Rooselvet (CVN-71) has been relieved of command for a letter he wrote dated 30 March 2020 regarding Coronavirus.
CAPT Crozier's letter (https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Exclusive-Captain-of-aircraft-carrier-with-15167883.php) is interesting and reminds me of another CO I once gladly served, CAPT Howick. Capt Howick, I believe, would have taken the same action as Capt Crozier, based on my service with him during an evolution at REFTRA in GITMO just prior to our deploying as part of Desert Shield.
Capt Crozier, stated the obvious impact and outcomes of an uncontrolled disease state on an advanced ship of war. Is that not what a competent war fighter does? So the YES's are:
- Yes, our enemies now know (perhaps have always known) how rapidly they can degrade our at sea war fighting forces with a simple 'invisible bug';
- Yes, I am sure the DoD, especially the US Navy, did not want to reveal this as I am sure it scared the crap out of the CoC;
- Yes, the families of those sailors are scared, but I think those who are honest with themselves are glad their sailors or marines served with this Capt. as much as I was proud to serve a CO like USN Capt. Howick or USMC Col. Doyle in the 1980s.
Perhaps what Capt. Crozier was thinking about was what Sun Tzu was reported to have said: "So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak." His mighty warship was weakening and he knew it. The CoC was apparently not listening, so he took the only course of action that was seemly left to him in order to take care of "his crew - aka his shipmates" and "attempt to maintain mission readiness."
He knew the risk the letter entailed. While he has been relieved, I think he will be asked to retire; and, I am not sure he will be Courts-Marshaled for this "seeming insubordination" as such an act by DoD could be spun in the media, if they chose to, into greater questions that would expose the military's ability to protect our own in times of this kind of crisis. He did not commit a USA LT William Calley or a USN Chief Gallagher type event from their 'personal actions'. If anything, from his letter he has outlined courses of action that could become military wide, if not US Navy, medical doctrine going forward under similar future conditions and provide a better process for OPSEC under such conditions. Even when we get a handle on testing and treatment, there will be other "hidden COVID-19 type" threats. The question should be for the CoC, is how will we now keep our war fighters at sea safer and mission responsive, especially aboard one of the most powerful platforms in our arsenal?
I have been a carrier sailor and I am sure the CMO and Senior PMT along with the entire Medical Department on TR are busting ass. In closing, I remember the singular case of Legionnaires disease we got aboard the USS Coral Sea (CV-43) when to the Med in 1989. The young (20 yo) sailor died about 10 days after arrival on board after his leave. I was a new PMT then, it was interesting times.
Finally, my sister is a DoD Civlian in the ME and she tells me that troops are coughing all over in her particular indoor-based operations. This operation is not mission essential. Apparently, no PPE or social distancing is being accomplished when I last spoke with her 26 Mar (4 days before CAPT Crozier's letter.)
In any event, just sharing some thoughts from an old sea dawg!
Blessing always to the RP family,
Question: Did CAPTAIN Crozier ultimately show "genuine leadership" or "fool-heartiness" by the penning of this letter and transmitting it in the open?
BTW, if you want to understand how sailors and marines feel about those that lead them under difficult circumstances this video might tell you something - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpNT5KUYhTM.
On this Father's Day and Flag Day for 2020 it might serve all of us to think about all the fathers and mothers too who are serving away from home and on whom their fellow soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines and coastguardsmen rely. While many have voiced opinions on many sides of this event, and its implications are not yet fully felt, the point is simply this quote:
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty (aka freedom)"
It does not matter who made the quote often attributed to a particular Founding Father, but with little tangible evidence to verify that attribution; rather, it is the meaning in the words that are much more important!!! In the world of politics, we are reminded, that the mastery of the gymnastic linguistics involved in the defense of an indefensible position is the tangled web woven by the venom of the spiders that need absolute power.
With > 22.5 views, >1.3 K likes and >370 comments as of this date this post has had a lot of play. I want to thank all those the posted. Have a great Father's day, Flag Day and think deeply about the event that will be soon upon us - the 4th of July. Our nation is difficult, but in that difficulty has always been hope. I continue to pray that our nation of men, of women, of black, of white, of so many others learns that our common humanity it more important than our, often contrived differences. We'd be wise to remember that:
ALL people have "...certain unalienable rights..." and "...that among thee are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness..." None of which can ever be truly achieved when small minds are willing to act out of fear and ignorance to save only themselves and deny these "...unalienable rights..." to the least among us who are in our care!
Blessing to all....
-------------
(Update: 13 Apr 2020) - Thank you SGT (Join to see) for this "interesting update" regarding the Pentagon's "worries" over CAPT Crozier's actions (https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/pentagon-worries-capt-crozier-s-concern-for-his-sailors-may-be-contagious--3). Humm. So, a Pentagon spokesperson could have actually said. “...This makes us sitting here in the Pentagon look like out-of-touch asses....” Now that is interesting!?!?!?!?!
Oh, I love the phrase "Crozier-20" - funnyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!
But, in all seriousness, if you are going to train officers and senior enlisted leaders that taking care of the troops is the #1 priority when it comes to being resilient, mission focused and combat ready, you should expect - the truth.
But, it is the update (https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/rising-navy-coronavirus-cases-put-heightened-tempo-into-question?loc=similar_main&pos=0&type=qrc) from PO1 William "Chip" Nagel that makes the update from SGT (Join to see) not just funny from Duffelblog, but actually poignant. Humm!
I'd bet good money that the CO has this over his desk in his stateroom: http://www.worldfuturefund.org/Documents/maninarena.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------------
(Update: 09 Apr 2020) - Thank you SSG Robert Mark Odom for this intel - https://www.rallypoint.com/shared-links/roosevelt-sailor-with-covid-19-found-unresponsive-in-guam.
-------------------------------------------------
Dear RP Family,
By now, the world knows the CO, CAPTAIN B.E. Crozier, of the USS Theodore Rooselvet (CVN-71) has been relieved of command for a letter he wrote dated 30 March 2020 regarding Coronavirus.
CAPT Crozier's letter (https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Exclusive-Captain-of-aircraft-carrier-with-15167883.php) is interesting and reminds me of another CO I once gladly served, CAPT Howick. Capt Howick, I believe, would have taken the same action as Capt Crozier, based on my service with him during an evolution at REFTRA in GITMO just prior to our deploying as part of Desert Shield.
Capt Crozier, stated the obvious impact and outcomes of an uncontrolled disease state on an advanced ship of war. Is that not what a competent war fighter does? So the YES's are:
- Yes, our enemies now know (perhaps have always known) how rapidly they can degrade our at sea war fighting forces with a simple 'invisible bug';
- Yes, I am sure the DoD, especially the US Navy, did not want to reveal this as I am sure it scared the crap out of the CoC;
- Yes, the families of those sailors are scared, but I think those who are honest with themselves are glad their sailors or marines served with this Capt. as much as I was proud to serve a CO like USN Capt. Howick or USMC Col. Doyle in the 1980s.
Perhaps what Capt. Crozier was thinking about was what Sun Tzu was reported to have said: "So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak." His mighty warship was weakening and he knew it. The CoC was apparently not listening, so he took the only course of action that was seemly left to him in order to take care of "his crew - aka his shipmates" and "attempt to maintain mission readiness."
He knew the risk the letter entailed. While he has been relieved, I think he will be asked to retire; and, I am not sure he will be Courts-Marshaled for this "seeming insubordination" as such an act by DoD could be spun in the media, if they chose to, into greater questions that would expose the military's ability to protect our own in times of this kind of crisis. He did not commit a USA LT William Calley or a USN Chief Gallagher type event from their 'personal actions'. If anything, from his letter he has outlined courses of action that could become military wide, if not US Navy, medical doctrine going forward under similar future conditions and provide a better process for OPSEC under such conditions. Even when we get a handle on testing and treatment, there will be other "hidden COVID-19 type" threats. The question should be for the CoC, is how will we now keep our war fighters at sea safer and mission responsive, especially aboard one of the most powerful platforms in our arsenal?
I have been a carrier sailor and I am sure the CMO and Senior PMT along with the entire Medical Department on TR are busting ass. In closing, I remember the singular case of Legionnaires disease we got aboard the USS Coral Sea (CV-43) when to the Med in 1989. The young (20 yo) sailor died about 10 days after arrival on board after his leave. I was a new PMT then, it was interesting times.
Finally, my sister is a DoD Civlian in the ME and she tells me that troops are coughing all over in her particular indoor-based operations. This operation is not mission essential. Apparently, no PPE or social distancing is being accomplished when I last spoke with her 26 Mar (4 days before CAPT Crozier's letter.)
In any event, just sharing some thoughts from an old sea dawg!
Blessing always to the RP family,
Question: Did CAPTAIN Crozier ultimately show "genuine leadership" or "fool-heartiness" by the penning of this letter and transmitting it in the open?
BTW, if you want to understand how sailors and marines feel about those that lead them under difficult circumstances this video might tell you something - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpNT5KUYhTM.
CAPT
Mission
Integrity
Political Correctness
Medical
Edited 4 y ago
Posted 4 y ago
Responses: 86
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The CO informed the entire world that our ability to project seapower was seriously degraded and put national security at risk. Did the ops boss recommend a classified Pinnacle or personnel casualty report. If not, then that person needs to be disciplined too. No aircraft carrier CO is a slouch but this was a poor decision.
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He is responsible for the overall health and welfare for those under his command. This isn't cherry picking regulations that offend the current Commander in Chief just because he's incapable of engaging in any form of compassion or decency toward those under his command. The CO didn't leak the letter per say but was leaked by those under his authority and as they say the Buck Stops Here and that the CO did the right thing vs the shitty cowardly behavior that we see others in kowtowing to a bad leader.
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In my experience, although integrity is a core concept or ideal in the branches of the military, integrity can sometimes cost you more than it will gain you. We don’t have access to what was discussed before the letter was sent out. Do we know that this was his first communication expressing the concern and severity of the case with his crew? I highly doubt it. Coming from a different perspective, this virus posed a threat to the bottom line. Sometimes the bottom line gets priority for personal or political reason/gain. What goes on at the ground level is often not what is broadcast at the 30,000 ft level. We have a history of “doing something” that really has no effect on anything because it gives the impression that we are actually doing something. It’s all about perception. It’s when the rug is pulled back and the fact the we really weren’t doing anything that amounts to anything is exposed, those in higher places can get a little embarrassed. I tell my guys all of the time, it is an honorable thing to have integrity and do the right thing, just make sure that you are prepared to accept the fall out and ready to find another occupation. That Cpt knew exactly what he was doing and knew the fallout that would come.
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He was trying to protect his men. I admire that. He knew the risks involved and still felt he had to protect and save his men. At first he followed protocol, but in the end he did what he had to to save lives....Good For Him!!
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"The best shiphandlers are always standing on the pier!" There are too many unknowns to form a decisive opinion.
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Prior to the incident, the Pentagon had already restricted the release of DOD coronavirus numbers due to the Strategic impact of potential low readiness numbers. This frontline naval commander then decided to write a letter then mass email it on a unclassified system. I find it extremely disappointing that this naval officer was unable see the strategic effect of his tactical decision. This very public stand down of 1 of our nation 11 CVNs is now having a strategic effect in the western Pacific. The Chinese Navy is now sailing there Carrier Strike group past Japan towards Taiwan. I do not think it is to much to expect the commander of a CVN to utilize the provided classified communications systems when communicating about the readiness of a national Strategic asset. Hate to say it but former secretary of the Navy Modly‘s comments where spot on!
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I agree with the Capt. whole heartedly because as a former NCO in the Navy and Army, I risked my career twice for the safe of those serving with or under me. Right is Right and I don’t believe anyone who willingly volunteer to serve their country should be undermined subjects of unjust politics.
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I am really surprised at how many say 'Yes' he did the right thing. NO he did not.
1) HE is in command of that warship and above all else IS the one responsible for its safety.. HE made the decision to enter a KNOWN port where infection was reported. HE made the decision to allow his crew shore leave in that port.
2) As we now know, there was ALREADY actions being setup to deal with the crew and infection.. Anyone in the Navy knows, you can't just pull off 5000 people from a carrier over night and replace them.. NOT possible. A Carrier requires a LOT of highly educated and trained personnel.
3) I have no problem with the letter being written.. However going OUTSIDE the chain of command was wrong..
4) Not to mention, putting out that letter in non-classified form was even worse. Any of us who have led or had command of forces, know that ANY data regarding crew disposition, status, numbers and capability of performing the necessary duties to keep that unit available, IS CLASSIFIED. Confidential at least, in warzones, secret or above.
5) This is the US Navy and a US Warship. It is not Lollipop land and the Fairy Godmothers shoe. The bleeding heart stuff stays back home. You deal with things as the come, you use the chain of command for things that need help. You don't write a letter then send it out in such a manner it gets leaked to the press by someone. PERIOD.
The Captain brought this upon himself. He may be a great Captain to the crew, one of the best ever. BUT HE is responsible for following regulations, rules, the UCMJ and ultimately the SAFETY of his ship and crew.. and the moment he allowed HIS ship to dock in a port with known infection present, was the moment his chain of bad decisions started.
1) HE is in command of that warship and above all else IS the one responsible for its safety.. HE made the decision to enter a KNOWN port where infection was reported. HE made the decision to allow his crew shore leave in that port.
2) As we now know, there was ALREADY actions being setup to deal with the crew and infection.. Anyone in the Navy knows, you can't just pull off 5000 people from a carrier over night and replace them.. NOT possible. A Carrier requires a LOT of highly educated and trained personnel.
3) I have no problem with the letter being written.. However going OUTSIDE the chain of command was wrong..
4) Not to mention, putting out that letter in non-classified form was even worse. Any of us who have led or had command of forces, know that ANY data regarding crew disposition, status, numbers and capability of performing the necessary duties to keep that unit available, IS CLASSIFIED. Confidential at least, in warzones, secret or above.
5) This is the US Navy and a US Warship. It is not Lollipop land and the Fairy Godmothers shoe. The bleeding heart stuff stays back home. You deal with things as the come, you use the chain of command for things that need help. You don't write a letter then send it out in such a manner it gets leaked to the press by someone. PERIOD.
The Captain brought this upon himself. He may be a great Captain to the crew, one of the best ever. BUT HE is responsible for following regulations, rules, the UCMJ and ultimately the SAFETY of his ship and crew.. and the moment he allowed HIS ship to dock in a port with known infection present, was the moment his chain of bad decisions started.
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CPO Nate S.
PO1 Todd B. Yes, "...Carrier requires a LOT of highly educated and trained personnel..." I was a Carrier sailor. Yes, the TR is "...the US Navy and a US Warship. It is not Lollipop land and the Fairy Godmothers shoe..." and CAPT Crozier was in COMMAND. With command comes - VERY BROAD SHOULDERS. I doubt that you have truly "...have led or had command of forces..." as a an STG1. At the most you have been very responsible to those who have. I say this WADR. When I was working on both my AW and SW designations the Sonar/Radar guys in COMBATCOM taught me a lot, for which I grateful especially one STG2.
As a retired US Navy Corpsman you never see or understand from your comfortable perch in COMBATCOM the bigger picture. Combat effectiveness is not just a "...LOT of highly educated and trained personnel..." but it is a "..LOT of highly educated and trained "HEALTHY" personnel..."ready to fight the ship at 100% readiness capacity...."
On a platform like TR the mission is to sustain FLIGHT OPERATIONS under COMBAT STEAMING conditions to ACHIEVE the OBJECTIVES for which the specific PLATFORM is assigned and designed to accomplish. In this case if AIR OPS are compromised the OVERALL MISSION is compromised, not from BULLETS & BOMBS into the FLIGHT DECK, but an unseen bug that can render ALL operations INEFFECTIVE and thus COMPROMISE COMBAT EFFECTIVENESS and our ability to FIGHT and WIN.
I don't know how many STGs are in a current shop on an aircraft carrier theses days, but lets say there are X. If 50% of X are impacted and cannot be at their station at 100% ready to go with FULL ALERTNESS that does that mean. Further more in a couple of days another 50% of the remain "healthy STG" are not affected then every 24 hrs the STG shop a group of "...highly educated and trained personnel..." they are taken down with an illness that will sideline them for 10-14 days. Where is the COMBAT EFFECTIVENESS inside 5 days and then for 2-4 wks as a disease take your shop to ZERO (aka below C-4) readiness.
As a CHIEF Hospital Corpsman, and a HIGHLY TRAINED PREVENTIVE MEDICINE SPECIALIST, my duty to my Senior Medical Officer and to the sailors including the CO was to manage my PUBLIC HEALTH monitoring programs from IMMUNIZATIONS to MALARIA PREVENTION to HEAT STRESS MGMT to etc in such a manner so the CO and the crew were safe and we COULD complete our mission without a "personnel CASREP" that would compromise our mission readiness and effectiveness from my failure. I NEVER failed in this duty, because I knew the implications without ever having to be TOLD THEM! For all your RIGHTEOUS indignation, if TR were floating in the middle of the South China Sea (a place I have steamed) with NO Air OPS and the the AIR-WING unable function is that what your BROAD SHOULDERS are able to deal with. That is what the TR CO was dealing with!!!
While your mission inside COMBATCOM has CRITICAL fleet safety implications in PEACETIME or COMBAT STEAMING, which I fully understand and appreciate, remember that your MEDICAL DEPARTMENT has an obligation to think OUTSIDE the BOX in impossible situations and provide options to the CO to fulfill the CO's major obligation to insure the safety and health of the Officers and Sailors in their charge to the greatest extent possible. The CO, because I have stood many times inside the CO stateroom, knows full well his every decision is critical. And, having stood their, understood full-well my obligation to the CO!!!
BTW, I have set up tent medical cities and conducted disaster response operations, have you? If the CO ask his "well sailors (Officers and Enlisted) to role up their sleeves" to join with a group of combat engineers to unload 1/2 the crew to safety by setting up a tent city, do you think when spoken to those sailors would NOT bust their asses to get this rough city set up knowing the implications? I have NO doubt they would help and the temp facilities could be set-up in < 24 hrs, < 8 hrs if the set-up leaders lead and the set-up followers follow!
Finally, CAPT Crozier understood one of our greatest Admirals in the last 100 years when he said during WWII to others - "When in command: Command" (Ref: https://generalleadership.com/leaders-lead-take-charge-move/). I would suggest you read and learn some more naval history.
Don't be a lemming and follow the "party line". Trying reading this address (https://www.navy.mil/navydata/people/cno/Richardson/Speech/CNO-190507-Richardson-SAS%20Keynote.pdf) and pay attention to page 11!!! Also, if you see [~657168-ens-michael-scott] tell him "Textbooks" are fine and form the beginning to learn the skills of leadership, but they are NOT the end of learning to become a - trustworthy leader!!!
Just saying...........................................
I may be retired, but I am far from out of touch!
Respectfully,
Nate Szejniuk
HMC(SW/AW), USN (Ret), HM-8432/HM-8404
As a retired US Navy Corpsman you never see or understand from your comfortable perch in COMBATCOM the bigger picture. Combat effectiveness is not just a "...LOT of highly educated and trained personnel..." but it is a "..LOT of highly educated and trained "HEALTHY" personnel..."ready to fight the ship at 100% readiness capacity...."
On a platform like TR the mission is to sustain FLIGHT OPERATIONS under COMBAT STEAMING conditions to ACHIEVE the OBJECTIVES for which the specific PLATFORM is assigned and designed to accomplish. In this case if AIR OPS are compromised the OVERALL MISSION is compromised, not from BULLETS & BOMBS into the FLIGHT DECK, but an unseen bug that can render ALL operations INEFFECTIVE and thus COMPROMISE COMBAT EFFECTIVENESS and our ability to FIGHT and WIN.
I don't know how many STGs are in a current shop on an aircraft carrier theses days, but lets say there are X. If 50% of X are impacted and cannot be at their station at 100% ready to go with FULL ALERTNESS that does that mean. Further more in a couple of days another 50% of the remain "healthy STG" are not affected then every 24 hrs the STG shop a group of "...highly educated and trained personnel..." they are taken down with an illness that will sideline them for 10-14 days. Where is the COMBAT EFFECTIVENESS inside 5 days and then for 2-4 wks as a disease take your shop to ZERO (aka below C-4) readiness.
As a CHIEF Hospital Corpsman, and a HIGHLY TRAINED PREVENTIVE MEDICINE SPECIALIST, my duty to my Senior Medical Officer and to the sailors including the CO was to manage my PUBLIC HEALTH monitoring programs from IMMUNIZATIONS to MALARIA PREVENTION to HEAT STRESS MGMT to etc in such a manner so the CO and the crew were safe and we COULD complete our mission without a "personnel CASREP" that would compromise our mission readiness and effectiveness from my failure. I NEVER failed in this duty, because I knew the implications without ever having to be TOLD THEM! For all your RIGHTEOUS indignation, if TR were floating in the middle of the South China Sea (a place I have steamed) with NO Air OPS and the the AIR-WING unable function is that what your BROAD SHOULDERS are able to deal with. That is what the TR CO was dealing with!!!
While your mission inside COMBATCOM has CRITICAL fleet safety implications in PEACETIME or COMBAT STEAMING, which I fully understand and appreciate, remember that your MEDICAL DEPARTMENT has an obligation to think OUTSIDE the BOX in impossible situations and provide options to the CO to fulfill the CO's major obligation to insure the safety and health of the Officers and Sailors in their charge to the greatest extent possible. The CO, because I have stood many times inside the CO stateroom, knows full well his every decision is critical. And, having stood their, understood full-well my obligation to the CO!!!
BTW, I have set up tent medical cities and conducted disaster response operations, have you? If the CO ask his "well sailors (Officers and Enlisted) to role up their sleeves" to join with a group of combat engineers to unload 1/2 the crew to safety by setting up a tent city, do you think when spoken to those sailors would NOT bust their asses to get this rough city set up knowing the implications? I have NO doubt they would help and the temp facilities could be set-up in < 24 hrs, < 8 hrs if the set-up leaders lead and the set-up followers follow!
Finally, CAPT Crozier understood one of our greatest Admirals in the last 100 years when he said during WWII to others - "When in command: Command" (Ref: https://generalleadership.com/leaders-lead-take-charge-move/). I would suggest you read and learn some more naval history.
Don't be a lemming and follow the "party line". Trying reading this address (https://www.navy.mil/navydata/people/cno/Richardson/Speech/CNO-190507-Richardson-SAS%20Keynote.pdf) and pay attention to page 11!!! Also, if you see [~657168-ens-michael-scott] tell him "Textbooks" are fine and form the beginning to learn the skills of leadership, but they are NOT the end of learning to become a - trustworthy leader!!!
Just saying...........................................
I may be retired, but I am far from out of touch!
Respectfully,
Nate Szejniuk
HMC(SW/AW), USN (Ret), HM-8432/HM-8404
Leaders Lead – Take Charge and Move Out | General Leadership
For leadership to be authentic, we have to make decisions and take risks. The reason we’re hired into a position of leadership is to do just that; and if we’re too timid to use the authority our boss gives us then we’re not doing our jobs. In the military as in many professions, we strive to solve problems at the lowest level. “Delegating up” to the senior leaders in any organization is a sure-fire way to create organizational paralysis, but...
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PO1 Todd B.
CPO Nate S. - "You doubt I have led or been in command...", "As only an STG..." Nice way to start off a discussion by disparaging someone else's service, especially since you have NO IDEA what you are talking about when it comes to my entire service jacket.
But, hey I guess my career rating also somehow means I am not 5 times injured seriously in the line of duty, now rated at 85% physical, 100% IU by the V/A, ALL service connected injuries. I guess being a lowly STG, when my career diverged to another path, during my second period of service, that did not count. (I had broken service periods also btw, i.e. not all my service one one big consecutive time period).
Nope I was a lowly STG and all that happened and all I did, somehow occurred on a DD sitting behind a stack. (that would be a term for Sonar console just in case you might not be aware being you are some mighty corpsman whose career is all knowing and all important). Apparently we STG's can't somehow have done anything else or had other experiences besides working in Sonar control.
And hey, I guess leading a 'combat team' of 24 does not count as command. I guess being the commander of an entire classified security detachment in charge of a specific secure location, does not count as command. And these are just TWO examples of what apparently does not count, to you.
I could go on of course... But I would not want to ruin YOUR expertise in who I am or what I did or did not do because apparently, you are the expert here and know all about my life even though I have NO CLUE who you are or your full career.
THANKFULLY, not all Corpsman are so high on themselves as you are because without some REAL corpsman that care more about treating someone than insulting them, I would not have survived at least 3 of my 5 major injuries.. You know those same injuries that are all listed as service connected that I assume you probably also doubt I even have.
I said what I said and I stand by it. Why? Because I HAVE been in command. I have led men and women in combat situations. I have experienced things you cannot possibly even imagine. And I KNOW what the chain of command is. I know what the protocols in the US Navy are for DISCLOSURE OF PERSONNEL STATUS, MOVEMENT and availability are.. Something you CLEARLY DON'T know based on your own words.
I also know the difference between classified and unclassified information. Finally I know when to lead my people into an area that is safe and when to NOT LET THEM TAKE SHORE LEAVE in a port that is KNOWN to have cases of an infectious disease that is spreading fast.
This has NOTHING to do with being nice, treating your people well or even making sure they are getting the best care. This has EVERYTHING to do with leadership and command responsibility which INCLUDES all those I just mentioned.
This is the US Military, the US Navy. And there are rules, regulations, protocols and a chain of command structure for a reason. But apparently you seem to have either not known that or forgotten it.
But, hey I guess my career rating also somehow means I am not 5 times injured seriously in the line of duty, now rated at 85% physical, 100% IU by the V/A, ALL service connected injuries. I guess being a lowly STG, when my career diverged to another path, during my second period of service, that did not count. (I had broken service periods also btw, i.e. not all my service one one big consecutive time period).
Nope I was a lowly STG and all that happened and all I did, somehow occurred on a DD sitting behind a stack. (that would be a term for Sonar console just in case you might not be aware being you are some mighty corpsman whose career is all knowing and all important). Apparently we STG's can't somehow have done anything else or had other experiences besides working in Sonar control.
And hey, I guess leading a 'combat team' of 24 does not count as command. I guess being the commander of an entire classified security detachment in charge of a specific secure location, does not count as command. And these are just TWO examples of what apparently does not count, to you.
I could go on of course... But I would not want to ruin YOUR expertise in who I am or what I did or did not do because apparently, you are the expert here and know all about my life even though I have NO CLUE who you are or your full career.
THANKFULLY, not all Corpsman are so high on themselves as you are because without some REAL corpsman that care more about treating someone than insulting them, I would not have survived at least 3 of my 5 major injuries.. You know those same injuries that are all listed as service connected that I assume you probably also doubt I even have.
I said what I said and I stand by it. Why? Because I HAVE been in command. I have led men and women in combat situations. I have experienced things you cannot possibly even imagine. And I KNOW what the chain of command is. I know what the protocols in the US Navy are for DISCLOSURE OF PERSONNEL STATUS, MOVEMENT and availability are.. Something you CLEARLY DON'T know based on your own words.
I also know the difference between classified and unclassified information. Finally I know when to lead my people into an area that is safe and when to NOT LET THEM TAKE SHORE LEAVE in a port that is KNOWN to have cases of an infectious disease that is spreading fast.
This has NOTHING to do with being nice, treating your people well or even making sure they are getting the best care. This has EVERYTHING to do with leadership and command responsibility which INCLUDES all those I just mentioned.
This is the US Military, the US Navy. And there are rules, regulations, protocols and a chain of command structure for a reason. But apparently you seem to have either not known that or forgotten it.
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Suspended Profile
It's HOW HE DID it that bit him in the butt...
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Currently, I'm in the "yes and no" category. While I commend the CAPT for attempting to highlight what he felt was a danger to his crew, the way he went about it was all wrong. IMO, any details regarding the combat capability of a ship (especially when talking about an entire carrier battle group!) should NEVER be disclosed in unsecured channels. Period.
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CPO Nate S.
MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P Even without specifying the "battle group" as impacted, in the game that is played regarding information it does not take much to put two and two together. In today's environment it would not take much for our enemies to observe something "out of the ordinary" with a ship of line that was not acting quite right. I am not saying if his actions were "saint like" or not!
If we also consider what SCPO Jason McLaughlin posted regarding the actions of Rough Rider Colonel Teddy Roosevelt, regarding a similar issue in Cuba, I think the CO may have known this history as part of his decision making process.
I don't disagree about posting on "unsecured channels"; rather, how far would you say a commander NOT in wartime steaming conditions should go, before their combat effectiveness is too far gone, and they are then placed in a position of be Courts-Marshaled for going from a C-1 to a C-3 or C-4 status, especially on a platform like the TR?
Unlike Pearl Harbor where damaged ships were mostly repaired (basically sea worthy) and put back to sea in as a little as 48-hrs in some cases with replacements for the dead or injured sailors provided under war time conditions, the scenario on TR remaining at sea with 5,000 sailors potentially exposed and a large number potentially compromised from a fast moving disease could have made TR's combat readiness ineffective in short order. Finally, would the CoC own up to any level of their dereliction allowing the readiness status to degrade when they had the opportunity to take immediate steps to assure it could be mitigated, including disembarking a portion of the crew including all compromised members, but did not? Actions toward an enemy you can see is bad enough, but effective actions against an enemy you cannot see whose potential can morph into multiple points of attack is quite something else!
Just saying......
If we also consider what SCPO Jason McLaughlin posted regarding the actions of Rough Rider Colonel Teddy Roosevelt, regarding a similar issue in Cuba, I think the CO may have known this history as part of his decision making process.
I don't disagree about posting on "unsecured channels"; rather, how far would you say a commander NOT in wartime steaming conditions should go, before their combat effectiveness is too far gone, and they are then placed in a position of be Courts-Marshaled for going from a C-1 to a C-3 or C-4 status, especially on a platform like the TR?
Unlike Pearl Harbor where damaged ships were mostly repaired (basically sea worthy) and put back to sea in as a little as 48-hrs in some cases with replacements for the dead or injured sailors provided under war time conditions, the scenario on TR remaining at sea with 5,000 sailors potentially exposed and a large number potentially compromised from a fast moving disease could have made TR's combat readiness ineffective in short order. Finally, would the CoC own up to any level of their dereliction allowing the readiness status to degrade when they had the opportunity to take immediate steps to assure it could be mitigated, including disembarking a portion of the crew including all compromised members, but did not? Actions toward an enemy you can see is bad enough, but effective actions against an enemy you cannot see whose potential can morph into multiple points of attack is quite something else!
Just saying......
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