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There isn't a reg covering that, but wearing a badge you get for being in combat without a unit patch saying you were deployed to a combat zone does look suspicious. And with the amount of stolen valor out there today, it's not without reason.
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SFC (Join to see)
And if you're doing it to ruffle feathers you better be prepared to deal with the flack that comes with it. I personally refuse to wear my recruiting badge outside of dress uniform. I hate the stigma that goes with it in the combat world not to mention its bright yellow.
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SSG Scott Burk
To LTC: Sir, I understand your point, but how much more difficult would it be to wear a patch from a unit you didn't deploy with?
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1SG Kenneth Hills
NCO,S Love flak, that's why we are NCO,s. but this is interesting, CAB and no Combat Patch, nothing says you have to where one So I would ask but leave it at that, you may not like the unit you deployed with, can happen, I believe I have 5 combat patches, I only where one 3 AD IRON DUKES, and in those day we didn't have a CAB, and I earned one and where one the 2 don't match. never had a problem.
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Why would put yourself in this position? If you are going to take the time to put your CAB on why not take the extra 4 seconds to put your combat patch on regardless if the reg says you have to wear both together or not?
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MSG (Join to see)
FWSI does not equal Combat. Overseas Service Stripes do not equal Combat either. There are 3 badges that do. How do people make these correlations? I always tell my soldiers, Patches and badges do not a soldier make.
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SPC Eric Cunningham
That's probably the best excuse to be light on the right I've ever heard - it's taking care of a new soldier and leading by example - showing a soldier what it means to be part of the wider brotherhood.
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No such rule. Someone just had free time and likes to make corrections. It is probably a pet peeve vs a rule. The only thing you have to wear is name tag, US Army, US flag and current unit patch.
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MAJ (Join to see)
True sir. I think the issue people have is that most often acts like this are done to ruffle feathers. All this does is bring negative attention and put the direct leadership in a tough position as well.
At the end of the day you can fall back on the regulation, but what's the point in doing something just to be difficult? If you have a legitimate reason why you won't wear the patch, then I think you should be prepared to explain that.
I had Soldiers that wanted to wear previous deployment patches rather than their current one, and some in the command didn't like that. In that case, who cares? It's a legitimate deployment patch, it's within regulations, and (in the cases I dealt with) it was their pride associated with that unit and friends they had lost and not to ruffle feathers.
At the end of the day you can fall back on the regulation, but what's the point in doing something just to be difficult? If you have a legitimate reason why you won't wear the patch, then I think you should be prepared to explain that.
I had Soldiers that wanted to wear previous deployment patches rather than their current one, and some in the command didn't like that. In that case, who cares? It's a legitimate deployment patch, it's within regulations, and (in the cases I dealt with) it was their pride associated with that unit and friends they had lost and not to ruffle feathers.
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COL Charles Williams
MAJ (Join to see) I understand your perspective as well. I was not stating my opinion, rather answering this question, which is always based on the standard. This reminds of CSM Melinger (MCNI CSM) asking young Soldiers why there left Soldier patch and right Soldier patch were different.... It also reminds me of the many Soldiers who wanted to wear a specific combat patch vs. the one they were suppose to wear...
Honestly, I can think of no good reason not to wear a combat patch, but wear a CAB/CIB/CMB, aside from you are lazy.... or forgot... Regardless, it is not against the rules.
Honestly, I can think of no good reason not to wear a combat patch, but wear a CAB/CIB/CMB, aside from you are lazy.... or forgot... Regardless, it is not against the rules.
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As an Inspector General NCO, I love seeing these type of spirited debates. It's an eye-opener to see the many viewpoints that different Soldiers and their commands may hold on topics like the one currently being discussed. It's amazing how often regulatory guidance is ignored and replaced with personal feelings and pet peeves. I appreciate the different points of view. It helps me to better understand these issues when they are brought to me and better understand Leader's mindsets. Very interesting post.
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Like everyone said it's not technically wrong, but in addition to regulations you need to look at post policies. I know Ft. Campbell or at least 3rd BDE has a policy that you will wear your 101st deployment patch over any other unit you deployed with, if you have deployed with 101st. My SCO put out that you will wear your CAB if you earned one. It depends. It's up to command sometimes.
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SFC (Join to see)
I agree with you. However, the original question was if he was supposed to wear a combat patch with a CAB. May not be in the regs but the regs can always be added to. It's up to command and it even states that in the reg.
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1SG Randy Ford
Actually AR670-1 says that if you earned more than one combat patch it is up to the Soldier which one he wears or if he wears one at all. do you have to wear a combat patch on your uniform if you wear your CAB, no , but don't be surprised when someone calls you on it due to all the stolen valor fakes hanging out there.
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SSG Demetrius Davis
There lies a recurring problem within the military, that old saying about 'adding to' a regulation. 'Adding to' and 'completely changing' are two different things. When we wore the black leather boots, AR 670-1 stated that the boot will be shined, nothing more nothing less. Adding to would be saying to spit shine the boots, you know, getting that mirror affect. Making a soldier wear a specific patch is the complete opposite of a soldier deciding not to wear one. I agree with you SSG Bournival, it is not up to any post commander or anyone that falls under him/her. In my experience, those commanders that make such policies make them in hopes that their units are either afraid to challenge them, hope no one is educated enough on regulations, or not fully aware of their authority concerning what they can and cannot make policy on.
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I have been off of the boards here for a bit, but it seems like every time I get on I find another one of these types of posts that really make me question what folks are doing in their spare time.
No, you will not find in any regulation anything stating that you have to wear your CAB and combat patch together, because they are both awards and it has ALWAYS been the Servicemember's discretion of what items they wish to wear. Combat patches are not REQUIRED to be worn, nor are any badges.
Please, I am not advocating that anyone spend their nights reading AR 670-1, but if you are going to CHEW SOMEONE OUT, at least have seen it in writing first...
No, you will not find in any regulation anything stating that you have to wear your CAB and combat patch together, because they are both awards and it has ALWAYS been the Servicemember's discretion of what items they wish to wear. Combat patches are not REQUIRED to be worn, nor are any badges.
Please, I am not advocating that anyone spend their nights reading AR 670-1, but if you are going to CHEW SOMEONE OUT, at least have seen it in writing first...
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I knew a few people who could wear just about any combat patch they wanted. In the days of BDU's it was downright hilarious. Every day a different combat patch. It reminded me of Heartbreak Ridge when Gunney Highway showed up to every PT session in a new shirt.
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SGT Beau Thomas
That's a fact, I deployed with the Guard 3 times in 3 different states. I'm authorized about 19 patches. But I'm respectable, so I only wear 1 at a time. ;0)
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LTC Paul Labrador
I knew a couple of folks like that. I served with one NCO who served in Panama, Desert Storm AND Somalia. Every week was a different patch.
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SGT Francis Wright
Well when we have a War Time Military; we have a lot of guys that would extend in Theater, and transfer to another unit. Some guys would stay deployed.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
Back in the day, I had a 1SG who rated EIB, CIB, EFMB, and CFMB. He did the same thing with those... Always wondered what he would wear on any given day.
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It is a SSI-FWTS, not a deployment patch. That is something Naval personnel will sometimes produce locally for a sea deployment. You can be deployed and not be qualified for a SSI-FWTS.
DAPAM 670-1 para 21–17. Shoulder sleeve insignia-former wartime service
a. Authorization to wear a SSI indicating FWTS applies only to Soldiers who are/were assigned to U.S. Army units that meet all the following criteria outlined in AR 670–1.
b. The SSI–FWTS is worn as follows:
(1) Nonsubdued. At the option of the wearer, individuals who were members of an Army unit during one of the operations listed in AR 670–1 may wear the nonsubdued U.S. Army organizational SSI of a wartime unit that was approved by HQDA on the right sleeve of the Army green uniform coat. The insignia is worn centered, 1/2 inch below the top of the shoulder seam.
(2) Subdued. Authorized personnel may wear the subdued SSI–FWTS on the right sleeve centered both vertically and horizontally from the bottom of the pocket flap to the bottom of the pocket on the hook-and-loop-faced pad already provided on the utility uniforms or field jacket (see fig 21–133). The SSI–FWTS is not authorized for wear on organizational uniforms, except as prescribed in this paragraph.
c. Soldiers who are authorized to wear more than one SSI–FWTS have the option of choosing which SSI–FWTS they will wear. Soldiers may also elect not to wear a SSI–FWTS.
Now it says optional, however it can be a local commander's policy to wear a SSI-FWTS. It can also be a local commander's wear policy to wear badges. I would tell you that not wearing both together will invite questions and confrontations.
I was not able to find a linkage in AR 670-1, DA PAM 670-1, nor AR 600-8-22 that says a soldier must wear a SSI-FWTS and a CAB, if so awarded.
DAPAM 670-1 para 21–17. Shoulder sleeve insignia-former wartime service
a. Authorization to wear a SSI indicating FWTS applies only to Soldiers who are/were assigned to U.S. Army units that meet all the following criteria outlined in AR 670–1.
b. The SSI–FWTS is worn as follows:
(1) Nonsubdued. At the option of the wearer, individuals who were members of an Army unit during one of the operations listed in AR 670–1 may wear the nonsubdued U.S. Army organizational SSI of a wartime unit that was approved by HQDA on the right sleeve of the Army green uniform coat. The insignia is worn centered, 1/2 inch below the top of the shoulder seam.
(2) Subdued. Authorized personnel may wear the subdued SSI–FWTS on the right sleeve centered both vertically and horizontally from the bottom of the pocket flap to the bottom of the pocket on the hook-and-loop-faced pad already provided on the utility uniforms or field jacket (see fig 21–133). The SSI–FWTS is not authorized for wear on organizational uniforms, except as prescribed in this paragraph.
c. Soldiers who are authorized to wear more than one SSI–FWTS have the option of choosing which SSI–FWTS they will wear. Soldiers may also elect not to wear a SSI–FWTS.
Now it says optional, however it can be a local commander's policy to wear a SSI-FWTS. It can also be a local commander's wear policy to wear badges. I would tell you that not wearing both together will invite questions and confrontations.
I was not able to find a linkage in AR 670-1, DA PAM 670-1, nor AR 600-8-22 that says a soldier must wear a SSI-FWTS and a CAB, if so awarded.
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LTC Jason Mackay
SSG Sedlacek I would not dictate that as a Commander. I have seen it done for the circumstances you describe.
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LTC Jason Mackay
Navy Deployment Patch....not picking, just illustrating.
http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mGuh9M0mc43jhYVkULRz-WQ.jpg
http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mGuh9M0mc43jhYVkULRz-WQ.jpg
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MSG Antwine Marshall
SSG Sedlacek, you're correct in your assessment. Policy letters can be produced encouraging Soldiers to wear badges and certains patches. But, there are no commander's orders or policy letters that can supercede a regulation and force Soldiers to wear any badges or patches on a daily basis.
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I usually do not wear any of my badges or deployment patch, due to the fact that I know what I have accomplished and I do not need to impress anyone
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I don't believe there is a reg stating you have to wear the patch. BUT, if you wear the CAB but not in conjunction with the patch, you may as well paint a giant bulls-eye right on your chest. Either put the patch on or take the CAB off. Either way, you will want to get out of that line of fire most rikky tik
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