Posted on Apr 7, 2016
MSG Military To Military (M2 M) Ncoic
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CSM Michael Poll
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Taking my heart out of the equation, It would be best for them to separate, being together is adversely affecting the children. If these are his biological children they will still be covered under DEERS, as long as he has them enrolled in DEERS. Once separation is in effect, send her back to wherever she is from, I believe her parents or someone would take her in until she gets on her feet, I am only speculating on this. He can then get bachelors QTRS as they are divorced (I am unsure on separation). He would have to pay child support, because he cannot have bachelors qtrs. and have children with him. This is the only way I see this being resolved unless these 2 can put aside their differences. For the kids sake either they need to cohabitate like decent human beings, or separate the Children do not need this extra stress of their parents fighting in front of them. My opinion only May be better opinions out there. Difficult situation you are a great PSG for working with this Soldiers issues! Remember when Soldiers stop asking you for help, they no longer respect that you will help them!!!! Great Job SFC Sutherland!
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SSG Warren Swan
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Bring the Soldier into the PSG's office for a sit down, and "come to Jesus" moment. Have him bring in his finical statements and LES for the last year in. Look in his counseling packet and see has he been sent to financial management and what was the outcome of that? Have him outline expenditures the family has, and explain any "needless" items that make no sense. This conversation has to be a "participative" counseling session being I need additional information to make an informed decision with his squad ldr, or section SGT.
While talking about finances, I'd bring up the issues with the marriage. Have they seen the chaplain, sought out marriage counseling? If not, I'd recommend they see one, the other, or both. If there has been ANY violence in the home (I'd probably do this anyways), I'd yank him into the barracks and he can see his children with a NCO present. In my counseling that I'd forward to the 1SG and CO, I'd put in there "You will not have ANY contact without a NCO present". "If you see your family out and about, leave the area. No hands gestures, motions with the lips of any kind, and no arguing". At this point I see that while I'd recommend counseling to them, it's a lost cause already, but I have to do my due diligence, and that includes walking his happy ass home to get HIS belongings. If possible the MP's would be there in support. Again he'd acknowledge there will not be ANY unsupervised visits with the family. If the kids want to see you at ANYTIME, let a NCO know, and you will be afforded the chance to be with them.
I've done two of these, and they're or were called EROD (Early Return of Dependents). It is a MESSY affair, it is one of the uglier things I've had to do, but to save the Soldiers, it had to be done. In this case, once I hear that there is no hope, then this would be done to her. Wherever she wants to go is fine, and the packout again would be supervised with a NCO with the Soldier, and MP's overlooking it all. Once compete and the family is out of the country, I'd rescind my no contact order being now he can talk to them on the phone, but any leave would be verified location wise. She would be told that she can still have the child's surgery there at the local Post hospital, and if none are nearby, contact TRICARE, and let them sort it out. The Soldier would make an allotment to his wife to support her (without breaking himself) and the kids until he PCS's or ETS's. With the family gone, my focus is to keep the Soldier busy and surrounded by friends who would look out for him, yet report to me any problems they detect no matter how small. My ONE concern is when the child goes into the hospital, the father is going to want to go, and he SHOULD go. I'm hoping that in the meantime he gets himself together and knows how to handle himself without us there, and the surgery is a success, he doesn't get into any trouble, and he comes back mentally effective and ready to do what has to be done as a Soldier. I'd hope that time apart would give them a chance to look at each other and think is this the best course of action; for US and the KIDS, and they decide to stick around with each other. If not, when he comes back, send him to JAG and lets get the ball on the military side rolling.
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SrA Paul Pfeil
SrA Paul Pfeil
>1 y
This sounds like you are punishing the soldier. Why does he get supervised visitation? What is wrong with you people. Why is the dad always screwed. The mom has no job and no way to care for the kids, then let dad have them. As far as medical care, what happened to tricare? It should cover anything they need.
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SSG Warren Swan
SSG Warren Swan
>1 y
SrA Paul Pfeil - One housing IS NOT for the Soldier. It's for the wife and kids. Two, I can pull a Soldier out of the house with little to no problems and put him in the barracks. That is NOT punishing the Soldier, but protecting the family unit. I guess you've never have had to deal with this to properly understand. I would do the exact same thing if it was a female Soldier and the rest of the situation was the same. Maybe next time before jumping to conclusions about who is punishing who, you should ask why we do this, do we know the impacts of our decisions and how does that translate. As long as the family is married, and the command team does not kick him out, they are covered by TRICARE. The moment he is divorced from her, SHE looses TRICARE and is on her own, whereas the kids are GTG. If he ETS' then no one has anything.
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SrA Paul Pfeil
SrA Paul Pfeil
>1 y
You specify say you would take his pay, and he would have no contact with his children unless supervised. Sounds like punishment to me. You never mentioned if it was a female, you specifically say him. I am a divorced dad, my ex took EVERYTHING I had, EVERYTHING!!!!!!! I got limited visitation, and 50% of my pay for one child, and I was a police officer, and have never been in trouble with the law. So yep I have experience. You make it sound like you are putting a foot in the husbands ass. I quote " a come to Jesus moment" .... I would hate to be under your Comand, not only do I loose my wife, I loose my kids, my money, my home, and my dignity. If I was your soldier I would have had nothing to live for.
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SSG Warren Swan
SSG Warren Swan
>1 y
SrA Paul Pfeil - As a NCO, I command nothing. I supervise and enforce standards. With what you wrote, nowhere in there did it say I liked what I did, but I did what had to be done. Now if we want to bring in your level of experience, I got my dear John while deployed, and was cleaned out when I got home. No kids, but that means nothing. Having a "come to Jesus" talk can be a foot in his ass. If what he's telling me, the paperwork he's showing me, and what his counseling's tell me don't match, he stands a VERY good chance of a one sided conversation. If you lived in any kind of housing, YOU are subject to be removed. Housing is for HER and your kids. Note that if the civilian police come 99.99999% of the time when someone is removed, it's the husband. If you are in the military and live off post, you can have your happy ass snatched BACK on post in the barracks. It has nothing to do with the law, other than the service trying to keep your name out of it's books. In regards to taking his pay, YES I would but NO I'M NOT. Making him do an allotment protects the Soldier from any further repercussions that could arise if the wife claims she never got the money. If she can prove that you were not providing support, you run the risk of loosing rank, and being chaptered depending on the commanders mindset. So while your level of experience is substantial, I have the SAME experience and the experience of having to do exactly what I said to Soldiers. Does it suck? In some cases yes when you KNOW the Solder is doing nothing wrong, but that's who I have to protect from himself, his thoughts, and to keep him or her grounded in reality. Having a NCO present doesn't mean he cannot see the kids, it means should something happen it's NO LONGER a he said she said moment. We're protecting him, but adding a witness to the events, and again protecting the Soldier.
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COL Jean (John) F. B.
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MSG (Join to see) Seems to me that, if the soldier cannot solve this situation on his own (and your involvement indicates he has asked for assistance or that it is impacting his duty performance and you became involved without his request), the chain of command should get involved. As a commander, if I was faced with this situation, I would probably direct that the family be returned to CONUS (ensuring they would be able to get medical care at a military hospital or through TRICARE), move the soldier in the barracks, and ensure his BAQ and other money goes to his family (yes, there are ways to ensure that). It would be much easier/better if they concurred with the idea, and I think a commander could convince them to. If the marriage is already in trouble, it seems best to go ahead and separate them (easier to do in an overseas location, as the commander can direct early return of dependents for a variety of reasons), while doing what can be done to ensure the medical issue is able to be taken care of.

The only other option I would give them is to solve their issues. If not, I would get the family out of country.

Although I never had this specific situation to deal with, I had several similar issues and all were worked out successfully (or, at least, as best as we could hope for).
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COL Jean (John) F. B.
COL Jean (John) F. B.
>1 y
GySgt Carl Rumbolo - Understood... It is tough and all one can do is do their best to assist. Of course, it goes without stating that a commander would be wise to get advice from the variety of personnel available to assist (JAG, Chaplains, etc.).

I always did what I could to help my soldiers and never shoed away from something because it was too hard or fraught with potential pitfalls. Yes, I made mistakes in my career, but all with the best of intentions.
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GySgt Carl Rumbolo
GySgt Carl Rumbolo
>1 y
SSG Warren Swan - BAH may or may not be 'theirs' - in the case of a member maintaining domicile willfully abandoned by a spouse and in the absence of a court order for support, the service member has the right to continue to maintain the domicile in the anticipation of being awarded custody of the minor children. If there aren't any minor children and it's a purely spousal matter again - if there is spousal abandonment by the non-servicemember you need to tread carefully.

By all means if the service member is the abandoning party, it's a different set of circumstances.
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COL Jean (John) F. B.
COL Jean (John) F. B.
>1 y
GySgt Carl Rumbolo - Thanks ... Like I said, all you can do is try to do your best to help. I'm sorry your situation did not work out to your satisfaction.
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GySgt Carl Rumbolo
GySgt Carl Rumbolo
>1 y
Oh it worked out fine in the end - I got the kids back and resolved the issues - went badly for a Sgt Maj and that caused some hard feelings - it was only one factor in my decision to retire - I was probably headed that way in the end, too many other things I wanted to do :) - just helped seal the decision.
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