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Posted on Jul 6, 2016
What APFT standard should transgender service members be held to and why?
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This has already been determined by DODI 1300.28
Service members will be graded to the gender on their ERB.
Service members will be graded to the gender on their ERB.
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MSG (Join to see)
but what gender male or female, if not fully female or male which one im currious and an to know
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SGT Laura Delgadillo
MSG (Join to see) - could you elaborate your question, I don't understand what you are asking?
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SFC (Join to see)
Looks like we are about to see a bunch of 300 APFT and a bunch of failures to go along with it.
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CPT Mark Gonzalez
The dodi is interesting if enforced as people suffering from this condition knew that prior to enlistment. So I interpret that as being a fraudulent enlistment if revealed during he first enlistment.
It is good that they published something though and addressed a lot of the questions.
It is good that they published something though and addressed a lot of the questions.
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Transgender service members will be held to standards similar to the International Olympic Committed and the NCAA. Both organizations have determined that after 12 months of sustained cross sex hormone use a persons physiology has changed to be consistent of a person at their activity level in their target gender.
That is to say, a person will have had a transfer of fat and either loss or gain of muscle mass consistent with others in their gender.
The science and medicine have been peer reviewed and anecdotally tested within the athletic community.
That is to say, a person will have had a transfer of fat and either loss or gain of muscle mass consistent with others in their gender.
The science and medicine have been peer reviewed and anecdotally tested within the athletic community.
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It's already been answered many times over, and this is such a small problem that it will only effect a handful of people and their commands. Service members will be held to the standards consistent to their gender as listed in DEERS. That's the regulation.
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LTJG (Join to see)
MSgt John McGowan - The fact that she came in 3rd place in that track meet shows that she is not at an advantage over the other girls, or she would have come in 1st by a lot. She had been on hormones for over a year, which means that she has LESS testosterone in her body than all the other females she runs against. She has to work much harder than the other girls to be at the same level as them.
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MSgt John McGowan
ENS. It still looks like trouble brewing.. How is the " I feel like a women going to work"? And how much does this change over cost? I think the military is paying to much and losing people power when this is done.
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MSgt John McGowan
ENS I believe we are creating problems not only for the military but for our nation also. There has been to many changes, big changes to fast. With all the progressives want at some point the conservatives will push back. POTUS, AG AND HILLARY, we won't leave out the FBI has started doubles standards in law enforcement. And add all the other that Obama has done and we know he has a plan for his last days. Throw in the guns and try and take them and people will not take it. We are losing freedom rapidly and everything has to be so PC. And the college crowd has much to learn. You did see the intern that demanded the dress code be changed. All were let go. Small problems tend to become large problems. A question if I may. How much time is spend on social matters, instructions, classes film and other ways to teach social do and don't.
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LTJG (Join to see)
MSgt John McGowan - Saying "I feel like a woman" gets you nowhere. If it did, I'd be much better off now than I am. Instead, it is a long, complex, embarrassing, and expensive process that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. How much does it cost? Well, the cost for one trans service member to transition is about 1/4 the cost of a 4 year degree. If people can join the military just to get free education, why is there such a problem with letting a handful of current service members get something much cheaper paid for?
What freedoms are you "losing rapidly"? The freedom to discriminate against women, black people, and LGBT people? What other freedoms are you losing? Do you know why so much time and energy has to be spent on all of this stuff you consider PC crap? Because people like you are unwilling to accept people who are different from yourselves.
What freedoms are you "losing rapidly"? The freedom to discriminate against women, black people, and LGBT people? What other freedoms are you losing? Do you know why so much time and energy has to be spent on all of this stuff you consider PC crap? Because people like you are unwilling to accept people who are different from yourselves.
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Keep in mind that the (Army) Physical Fitness Test is SUPPOSED to be a HEALTH test. Over the years we have added lots of "incentives" to for scoring high on it, namely by tying it to Promotion (as an example).
If we are only looking at it for its designed purpose, then we use medical science for the appropriate grading criteria. As SGT Laura Delgadillo has pointed out, the Standard is already set per DoD instruction. However, Endurance and Olympic Sporting has already pointed out the underlying science and philosophy as to why.
This discussion is no different than why Males & Females have different scoring standards, as well as different ages. The Science says we should (assuming we have a "score"). The is merely a nuance of that.
If we are only looking at it for its designed purpose, then we use medical science for the appropriate grading criteria. As SGT Laura Delgadillo has pointed out, the Standard is already set per DoD instruction. However, Endurance and Olympic Sporting has already pointed out the underlying science and philosophy as to why.
This discussion is no different than why Males & Females have different scoring standards, as well as different ages. The Science says we should (assuming we have a "score"). The is merely a nuance of that.
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Pre-transition...birth gender. Post transition, identifying gender. The hormones and the surgery effectively create the transition.
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I think that the military in general would be far better off if everyone quit worrying about PT tests and getting medals for nothing and concentrated on learning how to actually do their jobs.
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Had my ass kicked by pleanty of women in an APFT, have kicked the assess of pleanty of men. I don't buy into the two standard thing, I'd trust any woman I know to pull me out when the time came.
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It all depends on what gender they transferred out of? In its simplest terms a male is basically a tool and means to carry and protect offspring since the dawn of man and its structure is angled and set up different from a woman. Larger muscle groups, hip and leg angles are squarer, etc. When a transgender undergoes surgery and goes male to female takes estrogen and decreases muscle mass for becoming a woman the previous capability of being truly male decreases and therefore APFT scores must be adjusted. Now female APFT scores for female changing to male need to go up slightly as the reverse happens. Estrogen is replaced by increased testosterone and the body develops increased size, shape, and muscle strength making a higher and easily passive score possible. The whole system will have to score differently as a 3rd group of service member is in our military! It's easy. Max points for push-ups is 82 for men and 62 for women, EVERY MEMBER MUST DO 72 to earn max points in the push up event! See what I did there? I averaged the high and low and made a new transgender APFT standard in 3 seconds! You don't need to rewrite any standards you just change the numbers so they fit!
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LTJG (Join to see)
SSG Jason Wetenkamp - Holding both MTF service members and FTM service members to the same standard is not the answer. It is the definition of creating a special standard, and no transgender service member wants special treatment. As a male to female transgender service member who is on estrogen, I have nowhere near the physical capabilities of males my age, and nowhere near the physical capabilities of a female to male transgender service member who is on testosterone. In fact I fall about in the middle of the pack when compared to other females. Most trans men fall in the middle or upper levels of the male category. That is why this debate isn't even necessary. We all go by the standards consistent with our gender as it appears in DEERS.
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Total BS. Obama is destroying the military to for his personal picadilos. Read Romans 1.
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LTJG (Join to see)
CPL Patrick Brewbaker - Should Romans 1 replace military manuals and instructions?
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CPT Pedro Meza
How about First Amendment - Religion and Expression. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; meaning practice your religion but not on the rest of US.
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