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So, the facts are as follows. I received a RFC NCOER for "Failing to adhere to the EO Program." Which on its own is very vague and in my opinion is worse than if it said what actually happened. BLUF: I was relieved for "Creating a hostile working environment." My entire NCOER says great things, except the obvious "Did not meet standard" in character and the senior rater bullet saying I was relieved for violating the EO program. I have had a stellar career for 16 years till that point; DHG for SLC, Commandant Standard Awardee for ALC, Honor Grad in AIT, I am a trained Jumpmaster, SHARP, MRT, Battle Staff, I was an EOA, basically have every schooling possible that stands out..., now im just over 17 and im notified of this two days after I arrive in Korea for a PCS that should have never happened as HRC failed to perform their duties and stop my movement as they are required to do per their MILPER message. Now I am here, without my family to help deal with this and its very frustrating as I am also without the necessary means to seek legal assistance other then going to the JAG here on the Air Force base. After the incident I committed to the fact that I would get out at 20 if I made it there but after reading up on the process I am not sure it really matters at this point.
I have collected a Character Statement from the Battery Commander stating that I was conducting myself professionally and within the guidelines of his intent... the Brigade Commander who actually relieved me stating that I had unequivocally rehabilitated since the relief and that i MUST be retained and placed back in a 1SG position to lead our nations Sons and Daughters, along with my raters and Senior Raters since the incident stating the same. Is there any other advice that you all can get me? I am open to anything at this point. I have also received two Highly Qualified NCOERs since the incident.
What do you all think?
I have collected a Character Statement from the Battery Commander stating that I was conducting myself professionally and within the guidelines of his intent... the Brigade Commander who actually relieved me stating that I had unequivocally rehabilitated since the relief and that i MUST be retained and placed back in a 1SG position to lead our nations Sons and Daughters, along with my raters and Senior Raters since the incident stating the same. Is there any other advice that you all can get me? I am open to anything at this point. I have also received two Highly Qualified NCOERs since the incident.
What do you all think?
Posted in these groups: 
QMP
QMP
Edited 5 y ago
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 5
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There is no legal assistance in a QMP, it's not a legal avenue, it's an administrative one. Much like a non-punitive LOR or GOMOR, there is no legal review to it.
Your PCS may actually work out as a blessing in disguise for you. Letters of recommendation from your Commanders (Battery through Brigade if possible) will carry the most weight for you in the QMP board. You now have a chance to submit references from any supportive members of your old chain of command, plus your new chain of command.
To give you a quick run-down, there are three ways to overcome the QMP board:
1. Show there is a material error, contest the NCOER, show the information is faulty. This is better to do prior to the QMP notice and would have delayed the board until the matter is resolved.
2. Letters of recommendation from Commanders. NCOER's are good, but they show competence, not character. An EO/SHARP/DUI etc issue is one that shows the board you lack character or judgement even though your competence is very high. So, letters from Commanders carry the most weight to the board. This isn't my personal opinion, it was told to me by CSM's who have sat on the QMP board.
3. Commander's appeal. If the board recommends to separate you, the Commander (O6 and above) may appeal the decision on the grounds that retaining you is in the best interest of the Army. This appeal is separate from the Soldier appeal, which may only be appealed on the grounds of a material error. The board does not have to listen to the Commander and may not if the issue was one of character defect.
If you are separated you may still receive a reserve retirement if your separation date takes you to over 18 years. You would still be eligible for a MEB if you have disqualifying conditions as many old paratroopers do, as well.
Your PCS may actually work out as a blessing in disguise for you. Letters of recommendation from your Commanders (Battery through Brigade if possible) will carry the most weight for you in the QMP board. You now have a chance to submit references from any supportive members of your old chain of command, plus your new chain of command.
To give you a quick run-down, there are three ways to overcome the QMP board:
1. Show there is a material error, contest the NCOER, show the information is faulty. This is better to do prior to the QMP notice and would have delayed the board until the matter is resolved.
2. Letters of recommendation from Commanders. NCOER's are good, but they show competence, not character. An EO/SHARP/DUI etc issue is one that shows the board you lack character or judgement even though your competence is very high. So, letters from Commanders carry the most weight to the board. This isn't my personal opinion, it was told to me by CSM's who have sat on the QMP board.
3. Commander's appeal. If the board recommends to separate you, the Commander (O6 and above) may appeal the decision on the grounds that retaining you is in the best interest of the Army. This appeal is separate from the Soldier appeal, which may only be appealed on the grounds of a material error. The board does not have to listen to the Commander and may not if the issue was one of character defect.
If you are separated you may still receive a reserve retirement if your separation date takes you to over 18 years. You would still be eligible for a MEB if you have disqualifying conditions as many old paratroopers do, as well.
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MSG (Join to see)
Appreciate it. I really do. You are constantly giving valuable information and that is good. I will keep that in mind and read more and educate myself better.... all because I told a couple Soldiers they were making our unit look like idiots and I didnt like looking incompetent (of course that isnt what they attested in their statements lol). I should be getting looked at for SGM, not begging for my chance to retire lol
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SFC (Join to see)
MSG (Join to see) I completely understand. I survived a QMP as well and it was over some BS and it cost me my promotion to MSG.
Between counseling Soldiers during QMP notification and being in one myself, I had a chance to get real smart on it. Even if you are retained, and based on what you've said you probably will be, it will be a serious speed bump in your future promotions that you likely won't be able to overcome for another 5-7 years.
Between counseling Soldiers during QMP notification and being in one myself, I had a chance to get real smart on it. Even if you are retained, and based on what you've said you probably will be, it will be a serious speed bump in your future promotions that you likely won't be able to overcome for another 5-7 years.
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MSG (Join to see)
Oh, at this point im so over the Army that I am retiring at 21 if allowed to; not much would change that. I am ready for a change. I just want to make it to 21 so I can continue transferring my benefits to the wife. I would be happy with 20 years. But to get this far and the crap ive had to endure and the life threatening circumstances ive been in on numerous combat deployments in 03 and 09... I just wouldnt understand.
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MSG (Join to see)
Heres another question:
My NCOER states (in the senior rater comments):
"I relieved him from his duties as 1SG after a 15-6 Investigation found him guilty of violating the Army's EO Program. This, the 2nd 15-6 in the rating period for the same accusation."
Heres the facts, which I have the completed investigations of both to justify so I am not sugar coating it at all.
January 2018, investigation into whether I used gender discrimination to spread PII/medical information of a female Soldier in my unit throughout the battery. Basically, I was accused of making a comment that "She claimed she was pregnant to get out of the field." This never happened and is absolutely ridiculous.
IO findings: I asses that 1SG Hardy did not say she was pregnant because none of the other witnesses who would have heard it made statements corroborating the fact."
IO Recommendation: I do not recommend any action to 1SG Hardy.
Legal Review: Agree with IO findings and recommendations.
Commander: Agrees, case is unfounded.
May 2018, a seperate investigation is started which is due to: "Allegations that CPT XXX and 1SG hardy had created a hostile or toxic command climate within their unit.
This came back substantiated only against me, per the norm with investigations, the NCO always takes the fall. There was struggles between the senior leaders and command group but never the Soldiers. However, even with that said, arguing all the facts here is a waste of time.
IO Recommendation: Relieve 1SG, give local letter of reprimand by BN CDR and move CPT to another unit to continue command
Legal: Cool beans, i agree
CDR: One ups the IO, RFC NCOER, GOMOR Recommendation (Fought that off and beat it during the rebuttal process thank god)
My point is, my NCOER to the best of my knowledge should not have any mention whatsoever to the 1st investigation as it was unfounded and the investigations were NOT for the same accusation, far from it.
AR 623-3 states: Any mention of unproven derogatory information in an evaluation report can become an appeal-able matter if the derogatory information is shown to be unfounded.
Any thoughts? I have an appointment tomorrow with the 8th Army SJA office to discuss it.
heres my view..
I wait for board results, if favorable.. let it go.
If unfavorable, appeal the NCOER to be removed due to the information above. If removed, they must retract the QMP decision from what I read. However, I will still end up in the end with a RFC NCOER when they fix it, but by the time I get hit by another QMP, I would be over 18 and will have already dropped retirement.
My NCOER states (in the senior rater comments):
"I relieved him from his duties as 1SG after a 15-6 Investigation found him guilty of violating the Army's EO Program. This, the 2nd 15-6 in the rating period for the same accusation."
Heres the facts, which I have the completed investigations of both to justify so I am not sugar coating it at all.
January 2018, investigation into whether I used gender discrimination to spread PII/medical information of a female Soldier in my unit throughout the battery. Basically, I was accused of making a comment that "She claimed she was pregnant to get out of the field." This never happened and is absolutely ridiculous.
IO findings: I asses that 1SG Hardy did not say she was pregnant because none of the other witnesses who would have heard it made statements corroborating the fact."
IO Recommendation: I do not recommend any action to 1SG Hardy.
Legal Review: Agree with IO findings and recommendations.
Commander: Agrees, case is unfounded.
May 2018, a seperate investigation is started which is due to: "Allegations that CPT XXX and 1SG hardy had created a hostile or toxic command climate within their unit.
This came back substantiated only against me, per the norm with investigations, the NCO always takes the fall. There was struggles between the senior leaders and command group but never the Soldiers. However, even with that said, arguing all the facts here is a waste of time.
IO Recommendation: Relieve 1SG, give local letter of reprimand by BN CDR and move CPT to another unit to continue command
Legal: Cool beans, i agree
CDR: One ups the IO, RFC NCOER, GOMOR Recommendation (Fought that off and beat it during the rebuttal process thank god)
My point is, my NCOER to the best of my knowledge should not have any mention whatsoever to the 1st investigation as it was unfounded and the investigations were NOT for the same accusation, far from it.
AR 623-3 states: Any mention of unproven derogatory information in an evaluation report can become an appeal-able matter if the derogatory information is shown to be unfounded.
Any thoughts? I have an appointment tomorrow with the 8th Army SJA office to discuss it.
heres my view..
I wait for board results, if favorable.. let it go.
If unfavorable, appeal the NCOER to be removed due to the information above. If removed, they must retract the QMP decision from what I read. However, I will still end up in the end with a RFC NCOER when they fix it, but by the time I get hit by another QMP, I would be over 18 and will have already dropped retirement.
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Got the results today, I am being retained. Thank you everyone for being there to talk to. Appreciate it. Let me know if I can help any of you in the future.
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MSG (Join to see)
So my packet was due on the 22nd of November. Board Convened 1st week of December. I want to say I was informed of the results on 21 January. The results were dated for 15 January. So not terribly long, but it will feel like an eternity.
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MSG (Join to see)
When did you receive your ncoer? By the way, do you mind if I contact you on global? It sounds like I’m on the exact same boat as you were about a year ago. Thanks.
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You're an EOA that got an RFC for violating EO? With no clear statements stating why? Coupled with everything stellar in your jacket and the statements made on your behalf, I'd say you have a pretty good chance of being retained. If my memory is correct, you will have an opportunity to present evidence on your behalf for the QMP Board. Stay the fight and submit all your evidence.
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MSG (Join to see)
Yeah, I am submitting the Character Statements to the QMP board. Just, all I see and hear about is horror stories about how some people sneak through the cracks and some dont. How a guy with a DUI is allowed to stay but others arent. Nothing was SHARP related and I never laid hands on a Soldier, so in my opinion I should be retained but my opinion on the matter is of no concern to the board members at the time of adjudication.
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MSG (Join to see)
MSG (Join to see) - My gut tells me you should be good....but yea, you are correct on those shitbags that slip thru and are retained.
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MSG (Join to see)
It matters a lot about who you know; always has been and thats ok. I just hope someone truly looks at my record and sees that this NCOER is not me. Not even close.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
MSG (Join to see) I survived QMP. I was not told why. I believe it is because the NCOER which triggered it (a 4/4) was poorly written, obviously personal and not professional, and was sandwiched between a 1/1/walks-on-water NCOER and a 2/2 would-have-walked-on-water-had-he-been-given-more-time (100 day rating).
If your priors are glowing, AND your posts are glowing, AND you have a letter from the guy who relieved you saying you have been rehabilitated, you SHOULD be OK.
If your priors are glowing, AND your posts are glowing, AND you have a letter from the guy who relieved you saying you have been rehabilitated, you SHOULD be OK.
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