Posted on Aug 21, 2014
What are your thoughts on “Militarizing the Police?”
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Responses: 83
They have no reason to "Militarize" if they do the job they were hired and trained for.
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CPT (Join to see)
That's one way to look at it. Community policing and interacting with the community to bonds will prevent such episodes to occur.
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E - None of the Above.
The Police are not the military. They do NOT need to be driving MRAPs and running around wearing cammies or trying to be Black Ops commandos.
Am not against the police having military grade arms to match what the criminals have, nor am I against them wearing protective gear.
But they must remember that their function is domestic and that they are public servants tasked to maintain law and order and to keep the peace. WE THE PEOPLE pay their salaries with our tax dollars. The police should not prey on citizens setting up speed traps to collect money in order to pay their salaries. I'd rather they spent their efforts making a presence and keeping the peace, rather than bleeding the public to pay their salaries or trying to be SF Supercops. FWIW.
The Police are not the military. They do NOT need to be driving MRAPs and running around wearing cammies or trying to be Black Ops commandos.
Am not against the police having military grade arms to match what the criminals have, nor am I against them wearing protective gear.
But they must remember that their function is domestic and that they are public servants tasked to maintain law and order and to keep the peace. WE THE PEOPLE pay their salaries with our tax dollars. The police should not prey on citizens setting up speed traps to collect money in order to pay their salaries. I'd rather they spent their efforts making a presence and keeping the peace, rather than bleeding the public to pay their salaries or trying to be SF Supercops. FWIW.
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CPT (Join to see)
I have to agree. I was asked earlier why the cops are wearing fatigues. I don't know why. There is no reason too really. When I was a cop we wear 5.11 pants when not in uniform. They are designed for law enforcement. These guys look like they are going to do a raid in baghdad.
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This is a double edged knife..... the MISSION of LEO and Military are not the same...Training requirements are not the same, and how they are used should not be the same. With that being said, many criminals now have military grade (or nearly so) weapons and tactics. In this case, it would be prudent for local LEO have something that is nearly equil to match fire with fire. In most cases tho, the general street beat cop should not have a huge need for military grade hardware. Special teams such as SWAT have slightly different needs as they are activated for higher level crisis events. If the SHIT HITS THE FAN, such as in MO, the use of State activated military can be used, however, do not use them for Law Enforcement....they should truely be used as the "final hammer" to quell civil unrest/disobedience. With that being said, they should use as much restraint as possible as it is NOT combat...but need to accomplish the mission.
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I see no problems in equipping certain Federal Law enforcement agencies with better equipment and training, but having local law enforcement agencies with tanks is a little head scratching.
I can see big cities requiring riot squad crisis prevention gear/initiiatives involve national guard.
I can see big cities requiring riot squad crisis prevention gear/initiiatives involve national guard.
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SFC (Join to see)
I think the cops should get the training but not the equipment... that's what your National Guard is for, who should be called in if it gets that bad anyways. Waste of money, how about you take that funding that you were somehow going to use to get the tanks and dump it into your guard armories who need funding to do training and update their equipment.
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LTC Paul Labrador
The PDs should have access to it...but I think the ROE for when it gets deployed needs to be reassessed....
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From Batman Begins (2005)
Batman: We will. We can bring Gotham back.
Gordon: And what about escalation?
Batman: Escalation?
Gordon: We start carrying semi-automatics, they buy automatics. We start wearing Kevlar … they buy armor-piercing rounds.
Batman: And?
Gordon: And you're wearing a mask ... and jumping off rooftops. Now, take this new guy. Armed robbery, double homicide. Got a taste for the theatrical. Like you. Leaves a calling card. [hands Batman a clear plastic evidence bag containing a playing card; Batman turns it over to reveal that it is a Joker card]
Batman: I'll look into it. [walks to edge of roof]
Does no one see the parallels to militarization? Hell, outright explicit statement that militarizing the police enhances the issue. I'm not saying that Batman got it correct, but no one called BS on this key plot-point for the superhero genre. Sometimes fiction mirrors reality.
Batman: We will. We can bring Gotham back.
Gordon: And what about escalation?
Batman: Escalation?
Gordon: We start carrying semi-automatics, they buy automatics. We start wearing Kevlar … they buy armor-piercing rounds.
Batman: And?
Gordon: And you're wearing a mask ... and jumping off rooftops. Now, take this new guy. Armed robbery, double homicide. Got a taste for the theatrical. Like you. Leaves a calling card. [hands Batman a clear plastic evidence bag containing a playing card; Batman turns it over to reveal that it is a Joker card]
Batman: I'll look into it. [walks to edge of roof]
Does no one see the parallels to militarization? Hell, outright explicit statement that militarizing the police enhances the issue. I'm not saying that Batman got it correct, but no one called BS on this key plot-point for the superhero genre. Sometimes fiction mirrors reality.
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I completely agree that nowadays they need to be ready to face new threats, however departments need to make sure that those officers are trained and prepared to deal with those new toys.
This is where contractors come handy.
Sadly, departments don't necessarily have endless funds for training, especially for expensive private training companies.
This is where contractors come handy.
Sadly, departments don't necessarily have endless funds for training, especially for expensive private training companies.
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I am just confused with all the flash mobs of hatred in our country. We have worked on integration for decades, now it is more segregation and intolerance.
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The shift started in 1997 with the North Hollywood Shootout. 19 police wounded by two heavily armed bank robbers. Police across the country learned that 9mm pistols don't hold a candle to assault rifles and body armor. Its only gotten worse as certain types of weapons have become more and more common in the civilian population.
The other issue though is a militarization in police mentality. They focus on force protection and reducing risk, which fosters an Us or Them mode of operation where people die unnecessarily. No-knock warrants for minor infractions, SWAT Team misdemeanor warrant execution, some fairly loose lethal force policies and a public that excuses it for any perceived danger whatsoever.
Interestingly, I think the number one fix for this? Bring back beat cops. I don't have data on it, but it seems to me that many of these issues happen when the community doesn't know the police and the police don't know the community. Having guys actually out walking the streets instead of just driving through brings back that connection where police can actually think through a problem instead of dealing with a completely unknown threat.
The other issue though is a militarization in police mentality. They focus on force protection and reducing risk, which fosters an Us or Them mode of operation where people die unnecessarily. No-knock warrants for minor infractions, SWAT Team misdemeanor warrant execution, some fairly loose lethal force policies and a public that excuses it for any perceived danger whatsoever.
Interestingly, I think the number one fix for this? Bring back beat cops. I don't have data on it, but it seems to me that many of these issues happen when the community doesn't know the police and the police don't know the community. Having guys actually out walking the streets instead of just driving through brings back that connection where police can actually think through a problem instead of dealing with a completely unknown threat.
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Suspended Profile
I'd say leave the heavy stuff to SWAT teams (i.e. armor plates vs Kevlar vest, MRAP-type vehicle vs vans, etc). That's what SWAT teams are for.
From the ride-alongs I did back in college, your typical patrolman still is dressed and equipped like you'd expect: badge, utility belt, sidearm, and cuffs. But at San Jose PD at least (I went to SJSU), there had been an increase over the time I was there in the amount of officers that would dress in navy blue BDUs, blouse their boots, and generally look "tacti-cool". I really don't understand the point or function of dressing that way, as normal police uniforms are already designed to be sufficiently flexible and such in the right places to facilitate fence-hopping and other vigorous activities. I can see how it can lead to a sense of being a warrior in the mind of the cop dressed like that, which could become very ingrained over the long term. I don't want cops to think and act like warriors, I want them to think and act like cops. Warriors tend to escalate situations, cops need to be specialists at defusing them peacefully. Does dressing like a soldier make you think you're one? Not necessarily, but it sure doesn't help.
I don't see any of this changing unless the gov't finally realizes that the drug war is a) nanny-state interventionism that violates the innate right to do with your body as you choose, b) a complete and total failure, c) the reason violent drug cartels and so much other crime even exists.
From the ride-alongs I did back in college, your typical patrolman still is dressed and equipped like you'd expect: badge, utility belt, sidearm, and cuffs. But at San Jose PD at least (I went to SJSU), there had been an increase over the time I was there in the amount of officers that would dress in navy blue BDUs, blouse their boots, and generally look "tacti-cool". I really don't understand the point or function of dressing that way, as normal police uniforms are already designed to be sufficiently flexible and such in the right places to facilitate fence-hopping and other vigorous activities. I can see how it can lead to a sense of being a warrior in the mind of the cop dressed like that, which could become very ingrained over the long term. I don't want cops to think and act like warriors, I want them to think and act like cops. Warriors tend to escalate situations, cops need to be specialists at defusing them peacefully. Does dressing like a soldier make you think you're one? Not necessarily, but it sure doesn't help.
I don't see any of this changing unless the gov't finally realizes that the drug war is a) nanny-state interventionism that violates the innate right to do with your body as you choose, b) a complete and total failure, c) the reason violent drug cartels and so much other crime even exists.
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