What are your thoughts on mos's that don't deploy to "combat areas" without choice? What about referring to soldiers as "pogs"?
What are your thoughts on mos's that don't deploy to "combat areas" without choice? What about referring to soldiers as "pogs"? Do people believe that it's a soldiers personal choice where their unit deploys to?
Never heard the term POG until my kids went in the military. We were REMFs when I was in. I was good with that. In the rear with the gear, they used to say. I considered myself a dirty nasty leg grease monkey REMF. When those infantry boys needed their four deuce generators fixed I was all to happy to do it or the Mech Inf needed those engine packs in the 113s fixed we were johnny on the spot. Actually we fixed everything from coffee pots to wheel and track vehicles because we were a rolling shop.
As far as being deployed, the grunts were happy to see us coming. We were a contact team and usually carried extra cartons of cigs, candy, razors, and reading material from the px van. But then again that was a different time. We didn't have the wire or FOBs.
I have seen people get defensive about being called POGs but I think that's speaks to a deeper insecurity on their part. I am proud of my service. I pushed my kids to do more in the military and go farther. I do the same thing to my grandson. He wants to be a Ranger in the worst way. Because my Pop is Navy, my son and oldest daughter are Air Force and my baby daughter and I are Army, Holidays and family suppers can get pretty interesting.
Honestly I never viewed any hazing (if you could call it that) that I got in the military as anything other than team building.
As I read your post the only thing that jumps out at me is Hazing. Calling me a POG may or may not be right but it is not close to hazing. This is one of the issues I feel we have with the military. If someone says or does anything slightly offensive or hurtful it is considered hazing.
Now I am no infantry Soldiers so you can call me POG all day long. I am great at my job and without me you cant kick in doors. Call me anything you want. It is about being proud of who you are. The Combat arms guys call us POGs because they are proud of what they do and not all people can do it.
Would it be hazing if I stood around with a bunch of Soldiers talking about how civilians don't know how hard it is to be a Soldiers. Those civilians got it easy cause I fight for their freedom. If I use the word civilians in the same context as POGs am I hazing the civilian population. We as a military really need to get away from using words like 'hazing" and "toxic leader" as a catch all.
And laugh when they came to me because their comms were out.
SSG Bergevine, yeah, you forgot some.. everyone's a pogue until the ammo, fuel, food, water, PAY, PROMOTION ORDERS, or MAIL doesn't show up.
If it upsets you so much, re-class and become a grunt. Did some big bad Grunt call you a POG? So what? I'm an MP, I am proud of being an MP. Is an MP a POG? Yup, so what? It's what I chose to do in the Army. You made the choice of being a 92G, you could of been 11B, but you didn't chose it. I could have been 11B, but i didn't chose it ether.
Hazing to me is used as a right of passage as in fraternity hazing, DI hazing, or OCS Tac Officer hazing, or Ranger Training hazing. It is all used as a part of becoming a member that is like minded. Going through it and surviving is a matter of personal pride.
Being called a POG, Leg, Grunt, Rotorhead, Ash and Trash, Shit Burner (gotta' be a VN vet for that one), or any other colloquial verbalization is kinda' like me calling my brother "Dork Nozzle" . Those are names used to render offhanded respect to those who are like minded. As in the Services. One of my best friends is a retired USMC Scout Sniper. I call him Jarhead and remind him that I know who both my parents are. I do it with considerable respect for who he was and what he did. Only insiders even know what it's all about. Oh Yeah, If any one else other than a proud member of the Military community called him that............ I would be the first to the fight.
I was a POG as a contractor in Iraq in 2011. Of course once in a while I would wear my CIB cap and then it was "Hey Old Man, did you really know George Washington?". It never goes away no matter who you are. Just go with it and have fun.
I know without the right weather conditions a mission can and has been scrubbed. Likewise having food is important or that supply has equipment and things like boots and other combat gear.
How about bullets or fresh water?
Unconventional/asymmetric warfare has made just about anyone who has deployed, eligible for the crucible of combat. If you're proud of what you do and you know your role in the fight, you can justify your position if need be...otherwise you can brush it off and be confident of your contribution. It doesn't matter what some knucklehead says about POGs or whatever, but it is nice to toss that grenade back at 'em and watch their faces.
First, Id take a good look at what definition of the term HAZING really is.
Second, there will always be some blanket term to use as an indicator of Combat Job Yes or No.
I understand that not every enlistee of any branch is going to attend every possible school for every MOS. I would not expect a Pog-turned-Grunt to come to my section already trained to the point where my confidence in them is already up to 100% the day they show up. I'm not sure grunts-by-MOS have that high of an appraisal of inexperienced grunts who just appeared from their school, either.
But what I might expect is that at the very least their Physical Fitness is to a minimum level that they can perform under their new job description without their lack of fitness becoming an issue, negatively affecting job performance.
It is often a silly human nature for everyone to believe THEIR unit is the single most important unit within any major operation. Combat Arms runs around 10% of the military population, and it takes the other 90% to support them.
I will toss in my 3 cents on this however. IF there is anything to the idea that Grunts feel in any way " a cut above the rest" ...its NOT that we don't have a few (usually Married and living off-base) Grunts who also struggle with physical fitness. But at least we can usually see in them, like most of the rest of us (there are exceptions to everything), that while many folks who sign an enlistment contract are only doing so for the "whats in it for me" (ie college money, healthcare, whatever)...that there are some who did what we did simply out of believing in our Nation and a desire to contribute to it...which just coincidentally can keep one's attitude and therefore performance above water.
Before you blast me...consider your own units...think of those who were most obviously Contributors, and those who were closer to Exploiters. At any work environment.
was General Bradley's division. I remember several events when MOS did not matter; forced marches with web gear, helmet, butt pack and 2 canteens, fixed bayonet parade formation, yea,...try marching in that one and pulling interior guard. It did not matter what MOS or ASI, etc. We were Soldiers first. I was told, that my Primary MOS was what I signed up for, but while you are in the army, your secondary MOS is basic rifleman, infantryman.
"Oh, Sergeant, that is not what I signed up for. I signed up to be a technician"...Sergeant's reply was "Ah, you are a Soldier first."
The most important thing that I learned at my first duty assignment, after all that technical training, BCT and AIT. I was a Soldier first.
It is not so bad. What made my first assignment interesting was Brave Shield I and II at Ft. Irwin, field duty at Camp Roberts and Fort Hunter Liggett, Ca., and qualifying with an M203 grenade launcher in the back 40 range.
You may had seen many Grunts-turned-Pog in school...because those individuals already did their "time on the line" and put themselves at far greater potential, if not real, risk in doing so. Far easier to do that in the career early while younger and more physically resilient. Seen a few senior enlisted joining Infantry units because without that experienced it could hinder their military career growth, or might prevent an E8 ever getting their E9.
I wouldn't exactly say that BEING A GRUNT is amazing. But I would say the fact we have a few people of the right heart and mind to put themselves into the highest potential risk factors because they believe in this Nation, in a bigger picture cause...is absolutely AMAZING compared to those who only take the safest of jobs for the "whats in it for me" after service...college money, VA healthcare, whatever. There are Contributors and Exploiters.
Don't get me twisted...Im NOT saying there aren't any Contributor Pogs. But among the Grunts you don't find many Exploiters. Yes of course there are always a few exceptions to everything...those do not alter my points here.
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