Posted on Aug 30, 2016
What are your thoughts on the third verse of the national anthem?
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I was asked not to ask this question, but I see no harm in asking.
So, I am ashamed to say that at the age of 21 ;) I had no idea that there were additional verses to the National Anthem. Can you please give me some feedback on your thoughts about the third verse of the National Anthem. If you don't know what it is, I'll paste it below. This question has NOTHING to do with CK. I'm hoping that we can have an intelligent conversation about this. ( Admin: If I tagged this incorrectly please fix it).
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.
O thus be it ever when freemen shall stand
Between their lov’d home and the war’s desolation!
Blest with vict’ry and peace may the heav’n rescued land
Praise the power that hath made and preserv’d us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto - “In God is our trust,”
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.
So, I am ashamed to say that at the age of 21 ;) I had no idea that there were additional verses to the National Anthem. Can you please give me some feedback on your thoughts about the third verse of the National Anthem. If you don't know what it is, I'll paste it below. This question has NOTHING to do with CK. I'm hoping that we can have an intelligent conversation about this. ( Admin: If I tagged this incorrectly please fix it).
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.
O thus be it ever when freemen shall stand
Between their lov’d home and the war’s desolation!
Blest with vict’ry and peace may the heav’n rescued land
Praise the power that hath made and preserv’d us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto - “In God is our trust,”
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.
Posted in these groups: 
National Anthem
National Anthem
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 22
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As the saying goes, you learn something new every day. Don't be ashamed that you learned more about the National Anthem at age 21...it only took me 61 years to gain this knowledge...thanks to you. ;-) As a naturally curious person, I examined several articles on the web to learn more. The Wikipedia entry was particularly useful and enlightening: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star-Spangled_Banner
As for my thoughts, it is what it is. The poem was written long ago, and, as someone else already mentioned, the world and this country was a different place then. Thank you very much for the post.
As for my thoughts, it is what it is. The poem was written long ago, and, as someone else already mentioned, the world and this country was a different place then. Thank you very much for the post.
The Star-Spangled Banner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"The Star-Spangled Banner" is the national anthem of the United States of America. The lyrics come from "Defence of Fort M'Henry",[2] a poem written on September 14, 1814 by the 35-year-old lawyer and amateur poet Francis Scott Key after witnessing the bombardment of Fort McHenry by British ships of the Royal Navy in Baltimore Harbor during the Battle of Fort McHenry in the War of 1812. Key was inspired by the large American flag, the...
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SGT Damaso V Santana
SSG Trust Palmer - In indignation over the start of the American Civil War, Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.[20] added a fifth stanza to the song in 1861 which appeared in songbooks of the era.[21]
When our land is illumined with Liberty's smile,
If a foe from within strike a blow at her glory,
Down, down with the traitor that dares to defile
The flag of her stars and the page of her story!
By the millions unchained who our birthright have gained,
We will keep her bright blazon forever unstained!
And the Star-Spangled Banner in triumph shall wave
While the land of the free is the home of the brave.
Fascinating, history is!
When our land is illumined with Liberty's smile,
If a foe from within strike a blow at her glory,
Down, down with the traitor that dares to defile
The flag of her stars and the page of her story!
By the millions unchained who our birthright have gained,
We will keep her bright blazon forever unstained!
And the Star-Spangled Banner in triumph shall wave
While the land of the free is the home of the brave.
Fascinating, history is!
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I assume you specifically mean the "No refuge could save the hireling and slave" phrase. My understanding is that the British offered slaves their freedom to fight against the rebellious upstart nation. Francis Scott Key was a slaveowner himself, so I don't surmise he wished doom on them. As far as anthem goes, it's mine and I'll embrace the goodness of it and the freedoms it represents to shore up all that needs to be strengthened (and that a lot)
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SSG Carlos Madden
My understanding is that this was a reference to Americans being impressed into the British navy
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SGT Damaso V Santana
SSG Carlos Madden - From reading MSgt Richard Rountree posting from Wikipedia I think it deals more with the British manipulating former slaves.
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I remember fifth grade or so that there were more verses. Could not have told you a single word of them by the sixth grade. I read an article about it last night. Key was a slave owner, anti-abolitionist, had published something about Africans being an inferior race, and maybe a bit gleeful about the slaves the British were giving their freedom to if the fought against the United States getting killed. He thought they were traitors. How you could think something you considered inferior and property and not real men traitors I don't know. I remember decades ago some congressman or senator had a move to change the anthem to America the Beautiful. I think it was because the Star Spangled Banner is kind of a clunky song or maybe because it's about a battle, not the third verse.. It's only been the anthem since 1931? That surprised me too. I don't know. It's odd mentioning the slave right before the land of the free. If it were right now and we were picking a national anthem I would not want our current one. But, I really like the verse we all sing. If it was changed to America the Beautiful I would not be mad but I also don't think I would be for it. I'd be like, well ok. Maybe Lee Greenwoods Proud to be an American . That's what they played every day at reveille and retreat when I was in the 3ID. Everyone went to Attention when it was played at events. If it was changed back then it probably would have been welcomed. Lot easier and fun to sing. It's a tough one. I can imagine the howls and the horrible things that would be said if a serious effort were made to change. Mostly by people who don't know all the words of the first verse. But, maybe it does take big things to change and make America a better place. It would be a powerful message that we want to admit our past mistakes and really make America the Home of the Free with equality for all.
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CSM Charles Hayden Passed 7/29/2025
SFC Joseph Weber Great, well thought out and expressed! My basic at Camp San Luis Obispo, CA featured 'Stars and Stripes Forever'. It was played everywhere except during class times.
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SFC Joseph Weber
CSM Charles Hayden Passed 7/29/2025 - Thank You Sergeant Major. I think it is an issue that should be seriously examined.
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The world was different when this was written. What was the intent of the author? I do not think anyone can say.
Would it stand if written today? I am sure not.
Should we change it now? I think to do so would tend to hide history. Hiding history does not change it, it only prevents us from learning its lessons.
Would it stand if written today? I am sure not.
Should we change it now? I think to do so would tend to hide history. Hiding history does not change it, it only prevents us from learning its lessons.
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I suppose over my many years on this planet in the upright position, I have heard the National Anthem and said the Pledge of Allegiance a million times or more. Consider me a total believer and thoroughly indoctrinated in both. BTW, as noted, it was created as a result of the attack on Ft. McHenry (The Battle of Fort McHenry was fought September 13/14, 1814, during the War of 1812.) and had absolutely nothing to do with anything except defending our country from British Imperialism a second time.
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I was just at Fort McHenry in Baltimore last week. For those who don't know, Francis Scott Key was being held prisoner (sort of) on a British vessel as the fleet bombarded the fort in an effort to invade Baltimore on the heels of burning Washington DC down. It was aboard this ship that he penned the "Star Spangled Banner", the prose which would later become the national anthem.
That single fort and the few men inside gave the Limeys all sorts of hell. Eventually they gave up.
I have always preferred the third verse over the others, it has an uplifting and determination to it that I always found inspirational. Much like Fort McHenry, sometimes it is only a few good Soldiers that stand between the enemy and our homes and loved ones.
That single fort and the few men inside gave the Limeys all sorts of hell. Eventually they gave up.
I have always preferred the third verse over the others, it has an uplifting and determination to it that I always found inspirational. Much like Fort McHenry, sometimes it is only a few good Soldiers that stand between the enemy and our homes and loved ones.
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Sgt Bob Leonard
You said, "That single fort and the few men inside gave the Limeys all sorts of hell. Eventually they gave up."
The Battle of North Point and Baltimore was part of a major campaign by the British to capture Boston. The defenders of Boston successfully repulsed the British, but it involved much more than the "single" Fort Mc Henry and more than "the few men inside".
Levin Winder (where did they get those names?), the Governor of Maryland, was prepared for a British assault on Boston. Eighteen months before the attack on Ft. McHenry, two other forts, Ft. Covington and Ft. Babcock, were also armed and prepared for an attack from the sea. There were additional batteries of smaller cannon placed along the approaches to the harbor.
British infantry attempting a pincer movement by land, encountered various impediments, and American infantry, cavalry, artillery, and riflemen.
In short, because Maryland, and Boston specifically, was prepared for the arrival of the British, their campaign against Boston lasted less than 48 hours.
Battles That Saved America: North Point and Baltimore 1814
JULY 16, 2014
By Command Sergeant Major James Clifford, USA-Ret.
Oh say can you see,
By the dawn's early light...
"These few words—the opening line of the United States’ national anthem, “The Star Spangled Banner”—are some of the most recognizable in American history and move the heart (of) all that hear them. Nearly every school child in America knows that Francis Scott Key wrote the anthem as a poem after observing the British bombardment of Fort McHenry..."
"This story is well known but only tells a small part of what are known as the Battles of North Point and Baltimore...these are just part of the same combined arms effort undertaken by the British on land and sea against Baltimore in September 1814. Fort McHenry is important and the most famous aspect of the battle, but there is much more to the events of 13 and 14 September 1814. This article will discuss some of those important and little known aspects of the battle."
https://armyhistory.org/battles-that-saved-america-north-point-and-baltimore-1814/
The Battle of North Point and Baltimore was part of a major campaign by the British to capture Boston. The defenders of Boston successfully repulsed the British, but it involved much more than the "single" Fort Mc Henry and more than "the few men inside".
Levin Winder (where did they get those names?), the Governor of Maryland, was prepared for a British assault on Boston. Eighteen months before the attack on Ft. McHenry, two other forts, Ft. Covington and Ft. Babcock, were also armed and prepared for an attack from the sea. There were additional batteries of smaller cannon placed along the approaches to the harbor.
British infantry attempting a pincer movement by land, encountered various impediments, and American infantry, cavalry, artillery, and riflemen.
In short, because Maryland, and Boston specifically, was prepared for the arrival of the British, their campaign against Boston lasted less than 48 hours.
Battles That Saved America: North Point and Baltimore 1814
JULY 16, 2014
By Command Sergeant Major James Clifford, USA-Ret.
Oh say can you see,
By the dawn's early light...
"These few words—the opening line of the United States’ national anthem, “The Star Spangled Banner”—are some of the most recognizable in American history and move the heart (of) all that hear them. Nearly every school child in America knows that Francis Scott Key wrote the anthem as a poem after observing the British bombardment of Fort McHenry..."
"This story is well known but only tells a small part of what are known as the Battles of North Point and Baltimore...these are just part of the same combined arms effort undertaken by the British on land and sea against Baltimore in September 1814. Fort McHenry is important and the most famous aspect of the battle, but there is much more to the events of 13 and 14 September 1814. This article will discuss some of those important and little known aspects of the battle."
https://armyhistory.org/battles-that-saved-america-north-point-and-baltimore-1814/
Battles That Saved America: North Point and Baltimore 1814 - The Campaign for the National Museum...
By Command Sergeant Major James Clifford, USA-Ret. These few words—the opening line of the United States’ national anthem, “The Star Spangled Banner”—are some of the most recognizable in American history and move the heart all that hear them. Nearly every school child in America knows that Francis Scott Key wrote the anthem as a poem …
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Staff, COL Lee Flemming posted a thread a few days ago about one of the Confederate generals. His point was (my summation, I'm tagging him so he can correct me if I got it wrong) was that Confederate soldiers don't bother him -- they were doing as their government told them too. It was certainly a different time than now, but erasing them from history does no one any good.
I look at these 'new' (to me, too, thanks!) verses in the same light: written so long ago by someone who's intent cannot now be gleaned. Sure, we could erase it now, but why? No one sings that part. And it's out there. It's never going to go away. Best to just look at it and say, 'damn, I'm glad things aren't like that anymore.' Hiding history doesn't accomplish anything.
Having said all that, I agree with PVT James Strait, that a new anthem wouldn't be remiss, though, I've thought that for a long time, and has little to do with these 'new' verses.
I look at these 'new' (to me, too, thanks!) verses in the same light: written so long ago by someone who's intent cannot now be gleaned. Sure, we could erase it now, but why? No one sings that part. And it's out there. It's never going to go away. Best to just look at it and say, 'damn, I'm glad things aren't like that anymore.' Hiding history doesn't accomplish anything.
Having said all that, I agree with PVT James Strait, that a new anthem wouldn't be remiss, though, I've thought that for a long time, and has little to do with these 'new' verses.
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COL Lee Flemming
@ Sgt Greg SN Greg Wright you hit the nose on the head. I want my history ever present so that I can read, try to understand and moreover to contextualize it. Trying to erase and hide it does no one any good. And to those that may be radicalized by it - then so be it.
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Toby Keith - Courtesy Of The Red, White And Blue (The Angry American)
Hope On The Rocks Releases 10/30/2012 Pre-Order on iTunes here! http://smarturl.it/hotritunespre
SSG Trust Palmer, like many songs written during a war, "The Star-Spangled Banner" is best appreciated as a battle hymn, a call to action to fight the good fight. Personally, I think that the verses serve well as a call to rally round and fend off any particular foe, which is one (albeit not the only) purpose usually served by a national anthem. It is less morally arrogant than "The Battle Hymn of the Republic", and definitely has little of the coarseness found in more recent war songs (such as Toby Keith's "We'll put a boot in your a$$, it's the American way").
https://youtu.be/ruNrdmjcNTc
https://youtu.be/ruNrdmjcNTc
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While the later verses do have some "issues", we never sing them. It's not like the old Virginia state song that talked bought "old darky". (Carry Me Back to Old Virginia, now the State Song Emeritus. It was found to be offensive to Blacks though, ironically, it was written by a black man.) The new state song is Our Great Virginia. The Star Spangled Banner spoke of hirelings and slaves in one line, buried in the third verse. So many people seem to forget this tidbit. Who were the first slaves brought here by the British? It was actually the Irish. (I'll reference a song by the group Flogging Molly, "Tobacco Island".) At the time of the writing for the SSB, Irish had been slaves in the Caribbean for several generations.
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I am glad that you asked this question it's a good one I like the response that you been getting
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