What are your thoughts on units using the EST to qualify on weapons?

I don't think it should count, train as you fight. I don't believe a video game can prepare you for real life.

Electronic simulations are fun toys to practice on, but absolute garbage compared to the real thing. Lets you work on the basics and is significant improvement over dry firing, but in no way takes the place of actually shooting.

If you told me you were qualified on a weapon based on shooting it at a simulator I would take it away from you and go find a new gunner.

We have to use it here in TRADOC where I'm stationed we have no weapons in my unit!

Thoughts on using EST to qualify on weapon?
- Short answer. Hell no.
- Long answer.
- Live, virtual, constructive, gaming. Look at US Army training doctrine. Virtual, constructive, and gaming can be used as an effective and efficient means to achieve a training goal but the bottom line is that live is the preferred and final training requirement in most cases.
- Qualification vs familiarization. An EST can be a very effective training tool but it is not, and never has been, a replacement for actually getting onto a range and putting real bullets onto real targets. If we ever fight wars via video game then maybe an EST becomes the gold standard at that point.
- Apples and oranges. The real test of a Soldier is the ability to hit a target in combat while the enemy is returning fire. Never confuse the game world with the real world.

EST sucks I'm not going to lie. I always did had trouble with that simulation

ggg

the EST is garbage and a complete waste of time and resources. It never works properly and never qual on it yet I can go out to the range zero in 9 rounds and qual with a 35 or better everytime.

Army, Marines... now fucking way...
Not sure on the Navy but the Air Force weapons training is a joke.
My son just finished BMT Air Force and they didn't even GO TO the range.
Said it was being remodeled.
It was hilarious to see them out there yelling 'WARRIOR AIRMAN' when they never fired a weapon.
I understand the tactical difference but damn...

All training is good.

And maybe while we're at it fight battles on PlayStation 4. Same difference. The EST is fun and allows a person to practice BRM skills, it does not approximate the range experience. It is a simulator, but not real marksmanship.

Honestly I’ve ran it and gone thru this so many times it makes my eyes bleed. Here’s my take as an nco;
1.) its never running right, there’s always glitches
2.) civilians in charge of facility makes it a nightmare to even wanna deal with it
3.) honestly I think it’s a complete waste of time and money. I’ve gotten more training value with taking my boys out to a field with engineer tape or running thru the barracks or whatever I could come up with

Theyre good for practice. but they are a short for the soldier & the unit if that is used to qualify for standard. its ok for nbc if you have qualified for day & night qual. those are actually physically needed to shoot. the nbc not really.

It's just not the same.

Of all the ways to save a lousy buck, as it is qualifying once a year is a joke. 03 need to shoot every month.

EST training does not work. I myself would like to see any statistical data showing that EST training improved qualification scores with both the M4/M9 or any other weapon system. The fact of the matter is this, you are fire a weapon without using live ammunition in a controlled environment that impedes on necessary skills you need to use in an uncontrolled environment. The ARMY should be mandating training in field environment for the reality factor to improve skill sets for firing and maneuver with live ammunition. The EST training builds up a false sense of situational awareness and limits sensory perceptions for our Warriors who need to develop these senses in a field environment. True warriors learn there craft by conducting training closely related to a true combat situation, video stimulation and controlled environments does not do this. Someone is making to much money of a flawed system that is impeding our Warriors ability to fire weapon systems effectively for combat operations.

As a retired SFC as myself who's spent many days on a range, I agree that nothing beats actual "trigger" time, but working on a AIT installation, AIT soldiers & Law Enforcement personnel are the only one's authorized weapons, AIT permanent party soldiers are not, so for them to maintain current weapons qualifications and be competitive with the rest of their MOS Peers, unit commanders have authorized the use of an EST generated record score sheet. Now on the flip side of that record, those same soldiers, according to DA PAM 350-38, are exempt from weapon's qualification if they are assigned to a unit with that situation.

The EST for most unit training is a gimmicky tool introduced as cost savings and should not be taken seriously. Some one came up with an idea to bring marksmanship training and simulation to the 21st century, a contractor "developed" the lowest capable system, and the Army wastes millions. Nothing can replace using real rounds for training or building solid fundamentals. The MP scenarios may have some value, but I'm not a MP so I can't say.

It would be great if we engaged the enemy in call of duty. In reality those glorified light guns don't do shit. Get your guys real training.

Until we can conduct a war via Call of Duty using robots, then hell no!

In basic my M16 kicked on every 3rd round. I learned to adjust to it and expect that. My first duty station my M16 kicked on every 5th round, again I learned it and was ready for it each time. That brings up the question of how do you truly learn your weapon if you are not firing live ammo?