Posted on Sep 10, 2016
What are your thoughts on units using the EST to qualify on weapons?
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I disagree unless it is included solely for reaction time issues. The EST is a great tool for preparing Soldiers for combat situations, but it is not the same as firing an actual weapon on the range!
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Units and leaders had better get used to the idea, especially in the Reserves and National Guard. We just don't have the funds and ammo for actual range training anymore, plus the additional costs of transporting, billeting, and feeding Soldiers at a distant range site.
This is the new Army; doing more with less, and technology helps bridge the gap between theory and application.
This is the new Army; doing more with less, and technology helps bridge the gap between theory and application.
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SSG(P) Brian Kliesen
This in itself is a sad statement of where we are in the Army and particularly in the Guard and Reserves. There are times when technology is the answer, but the basic soldier skills of being able to shoot, move, react are critical. The Army would rather spend millions of dollars on a weapons system that may take years to finally work than to accomplish the skill set of basic rifle marksmanship.
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Doesn't replace the feel of firing live rounds and you can use the EST down range to engage the enemy.
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The last time I used EST we had just got done rucking, the heat coming off us combined with the cool air of the room made our eye pro fog up like crazy. A lot of guys missed their targets. This was a stand up react to contact exercise. The instructor was annoyed by the poor performance. I asked to do it again and she agreed. I pulled my eye pro off, she told me I had to wear them. I insisted and explained the situation to my SGT and got the go ahead.
I hit every target that time around.
The EST simulates recoil fairly well, definitely not the noise, and it can give different options on a moments notice for training. Though I'm not sure it should be used as the only means to qualify but rather an addition to training.
However if a proper range is not available or there is a restriction on ammunition for whatever reason then you do what you have to do.
I hit every target that time around.
The EST simulates recoil fairly well, definitely not the noise, and it can give different options on a moments notice for training. Though I'm not sure it should be used as the only means to qualify but rather an addition to training.
However if a proper range is not available or there is a restriction on ammunition for whatever reason then you do what you have to do.
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The EST 2000 is a training tool and for many, their first introduction in using a weapon on a range, working as a squad or utilizing a variety of weapons in a carefully controlled environment. However, it is just that, a simulation. Nothing can replace time spent in the field, putting rounds down range. The EST 2000 is the classroom portion of going to the range where units can hone the skills of their shooters and bring up the skill levels of those that struggle. It should not be used as a qualification tool, though some units use it that way. In the Army Reserve we too often use it as a training tool with no follow up. Without proper maintenance and care the system tends to break down and becomes frustrating to even the best marksman. Some will gain skills using it, others will not. But everything becomes real when you slap a magazine into your weapon with live rounds and engage targets from a real weapon, on a real range with and without real optics.
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While simulators are good for practice, they can never replace actually firing a weapon.
Back in the 90's there was the Multi-Purpose Arcade Combat Simulator (M.A.C.S.) which was essentially a Nintendo game with an fake M-16 attached. There was no recoil and you were shooting targets on a TV just a few feet away, but it helped get the fundamentals down and cost next to nothing for soldiers to practice their shooting.
On range days, you could tell who had been using it to practice because they generally scored better.
That being said, it could not account for recoil, shadows, sun or wind effects.
Simulators have become a lot better since then, but the point still stands. Nothing can replace actually firing a real weapon with live ammo.
http://www.snescentral.com/article.php?id=0901
Back in the 90's there was the Multi-Purpose Arcade Combat Simulator (M.A.C.S.) which was essentially a Nintendo game with an fake M-16 attached. There was no recoil and you were shooting targets on a TV just a few feet away, but it helped get the fundamentals down and cost next to nothing for soldiers to practice their shooting.
On range days, you could tell who had been using it to practice because they generally scored better.
That being said, it could not account for recoil, shadows, sun or wind effects.
Simulators have become a lot better since then, but the point still stands. Nothing can replace actually firing a real weapon with live ammo.
http://www.snescentral.com/article.php?id=0901
Snes Central: Multi-Purpose Arcade Combat Simulator (M.A.C.S.)
The Multi-Purpose Arcade Combat Simulator (or M.A.C.S.), was a shooting simulator developed for the U.S. Army as a cheap way to train shooting skills. It was a bit of a mystery until a couple of years ago when the rifle and and carts became available through Ebay. Thanks to 98PaceCar for the pictures!
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The EST is good for training but nothing beats qualifying at an actual range because not only are joes are going to the range but they are also seeing how a range is being set up and ran so there is more to qualifying when going to an actual range.
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Just to chime in...
As mentioned several times, the EST cannot be used for qualification. Having said that, the Army is moving towards a 6 table format outlined in TC 2-21.0 (Individual and Crew live fire prerequisite testing) for all qualifications. (though not all the manuals have been published).
For small arms this works out as follows:
Table I: PMI
Table II: Simulation (EST)
Table III: Basic (think dime and washer drills)
Table VI: Zero
Table V: Practice
Table VI: Qualification
Unfortunately, to my knowledge, STRAC has not been updated to provide for the additional 40 rounds per Soldier to cover Table V.
As mentioned several times, the EST cannot be used for qualification. Having said that, the Army is moving towards a 6 table format outlined in TC 2-21.0 (Individual and Crew live fire prerequisite testing) for all qualifications. (though not all the manuals have been published).
For small arms this works out as follows:
Table I: PMI
Table II: Simulation (EST)
Table III: Basic (think dime and washer drills)
Table VI: Zero
Table V: Practice
Table VI: Qualification
Unfortunately, to my knowledge, STRAC has not been updated to provide for the additional 40 rounds per Soldier to cover Table V.
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