Posted on Sep 10, 2016
What are your thoughts on units using the EST to qualify on weapons?
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Responses: 59
I don't think it should count, train as you fight. I don't believe a video game can prepare you for real life.
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SSG Ward Mayfield
I strongly agree with you on this. Training with the weapons and tools you will use as you will be intending to use them is paramount. Felt recoil, gaseous expansion, auditory impact, and re acquiring a target immediately after experiencing those inputs are really important to reduce active engagement threats.
I think simulation training is also an excellent tool, it lowers a massive bill for bullets over the long term of its use, greatly reduces the risk of injury (especially in the initial entry training phases of a soldier's career), weather does not interrupt or distract from training while still effectively giving fundamentals and familiarity with their weapon systems.
But we damn well better put a real weapon with real bullets into their hands and make sure they're ready. Soldiers need to qualify with their actual weapons and tools in hand.
I think simulation training is also an excellent tool, it lowers a massive bill for bullets over the long term of its use, greatly reduces the risk of injury (especially in the initial entry training phases of a soldier's career), weather does not interrupt or distract from training while still effectively giving fundamentals and familiarity with their weapon systems.
But we damn well better put a real weapon with real bullets into their hands and make sure they're ready. Soldiers need to qualify with their actual weapons and tools in hand.
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Electronic simulations are fun toys to practice on, but absolute garbage compared to the real thing. Lets you work on the basics and is significant improvement over dry firing, but in no way takes the place of actually shooting.
If you told me you were qualified on a weapon based on shooting it at a simulator I would take it away from you and go find a new gunner.
If you told me you were qualified on a weapon based on shooting it at a simulator I would take it away from you and go find a new gunner.
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We have to use it here in TRADOC where I'm stationed we have no weapons in my unit!
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Thoughts on using EST to qualify on weapon?
- Short answer. Hell no.
- Long answer.
- Live, virtual, constructive, gaming. Look at US Army training doctrine. Virtual, constructive, and gaming can be used as an effective and efficient means to achieve a training goal but the bottom line is that live is the preferred and final training requirement in most cases.
- Qualification vs familiarization. An EST can be a very effective training tool but it is not, and never has been, a replacement for actually getting onto a range and putting real bullets onto real targets. If we ever fight wars via video game then maybe an EST becomes the gold standard at that point.
- Apples and oranges. The real test of a Soldier is the ability to hit a target in combat while the enemy is returning fire. Never confuse the game world with the real world.
- Short answer. Hell no.
- Long answer.
- Live, virtual, constructive, gaming. Look at US Army training doctrine. Virtual, constructive, and gaming can be used as an effective and efficient means to achieve a training goal but the bottom line is that live is the preferred and final training requirement in most cases.
- Qualification vs familiarization. An EST can be a very effective training tool but it is not, and never has been, a replacement for actually getting onto a range and putting real bullets onto real targets. If we ever fight wars via video game then maybe an EST becomes the gold standard at that point.
- Apples and oranges. The real test of a Soldier is the ability to hit a target in combat while the enemy is returning fire. Never confuse the game world with the real world.
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EST sucks I'm not going to lie. I always did had trouble with that simulation
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SFC(P) (Join to see)
No it doesn't you must not know how to use it properly or have much experience with simulators! I fire expert on EST and Live Fire Ranges both!
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the EST is garbage and a complete waste of time and resources. It never works properly and never qual on it yet I can go out to the range zero in 9 rounds and qual with a 35 or better everytime.
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SSG (Join to see)
Sir, that is because it never properly works. The sights aren't accurate and the experience is 100% fake. Nothing can replace putting actual rounds down range, Sir.
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Army, Marines... now fucking way...
Not sure on the Navy but the Air Force weapons training is a joke.
My son just finished BMT Air Force and they didn't even GO TO the range.
Said it was being remodeled.
It was hilarious to see them out there yelling 'WARRIOR AIRMAN' when they never fired a weapon.
I understand the tactical difference but damn...
Not sure on the Navy but the Air Force weapons training is a joke.
My son just finished BMT Air Force and they didn't even GO TO the range.
Said it was being remodeled.
It was hilarious to see them out there yelling 'WARRIOR AIRMAN' when they never fired a weapon.
I understand the tactical difference but damn...
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And maybe while we're at it fight battles on PlayStation 4. Same difference. The EST is fun and allows a person to practice BRM skills, it does not approximate the range experience. It is a simulator, but not real marksmanship.
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