Posted on Oct 6, 2023
What Army regulation covers me being forced to use my POV to transport other soldiers for Army duties? Am I required to do it?
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I haven’t been specifically directed or ordered to transport said soldier but I would like to refuse and I would like to be able to protect myself with facts to be on the safe side
Posted 2 y ago
Responses: 25
There is a lot of context missing here. WHY are you being asked to transport other soldiers in your POV? IF it's a case of SPC Sackocrap and PFC Fecesforbrains doesn't have a way to get from the same barracks you all live in to the same duty location you all work, I can understand why your CoC would want you to help fellow soldiers. They should be kicking in gas money to compensate. IF it's a case of the CoC expects you to provide transpo for official duty/training/unit function, etc then you should be entitled to file for travel reimbursement (I "think" AR 58-1 is the applicable pub). The unit also should be required to provide NTV resources (also covered under AR 58-1). My brain is a bit fuzzy on the details since it's been over 15 years since I had to deal with this type of situation. LTC Kevin B. has listed some really great advice on this topic. I recommend reading his response in detail.
And as others have already said....Pick the hill you want to die on. COULD you make a stink about having to haul PVT Sadsack around? Sure. COULD you also label yourself as a whinny individual who doesn't want to be a team player? Also, sure. As with most things DoD (and 'life' in general), the method you use to approach the issue at hand can go a long way to an acceptable resolution.
And as others have already said....Pick the hill you want to die on. COULD you make a stink about having to haul PVT Sadsack around? Sure. COULD you also label yourself as a whinny individual who doesn't want to be a team player? Also, sure. As with most things DoD (and 'life' in general), the method you use to approach the issue at hand can go a long way to an acceptable resolution.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
SFC Joe Mama -
I Think The Shame Is That Someone Has To Be ORDERED To Be Of Assistance.
Yo Mama.
I Think The Shame Is That Someone Has To Be ORDERED To Be Of Assistance.
Yo Mama.
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Lots of scenarios. Plain and simple, your chain of command can't make you pick up, take here or there with your POV. They can ask you to do it and you can say, No. If you do make it clear that the person will have to pay you for the use of you and your vehicle.
Now if it comes to the point that they try to force you, Open Door Policy before going to IG. Now while on duty, your 1SG and CO have humves or an assigned vehicle to use on post. Their assigned drivers can drive Soldiers around during the duty day. Even the BN as a driver, Staff Duty Runner.
To be honest, that's a responsibility of your PSG and NCOs in your PLT. Again, they can't legally order you to do this.
Now if it comes to the point that they try to force you, Open Door Policy before going to IG. Now while on duty, your 1SG and CO have humves or an assigned vehicle to use on post. Their assigned drivers can drive Soldiers around during the duty day. Even the BN as a driver, Staff Duty Runner.
To be honest, that's a responsibility of your PSG and NCOs in your PLT. Again, they can't legally order you to do this.
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I was threatened with an article 15 when I refused to donate to the cfc. I went to the post JAG they informed me that I could lawfully refused a direct order in regards to the use of my personal property or pay. I would recommend reaching out to your local JAG. They will be able to get you on the right path.
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The publication is call BB 101. You might have to catch a ride wit that SM one day if your car breaks down, and you need to get to work, or to the store.
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~~ LMAO ~~
Sorry Folks But I Served From 1961 - 1965.
And This Manner Of Sh*t Gives Me A Chuckle.
I SWEAR, Over The Years I've Watched Our Military Go From Tough
And Taking Orders, Doing What Your Told, And Sucking It Up,
To Looking Like You're Holding A Girl Scout Cookie Drive.
Everyone Want's Their Rights With No Responsibilities.
"But I Don't Wanna Do That Job, Let Someone Else Do It".
Whining Every Time They're Ordered To Do Something Outside Of Their Specialty.
"It's Not My Job"...... How Do Ya Run That Place?~ Ya Can't Be Very Efficient This Way!~
Sorry Folks But I Served From 1961 - 1965.
And This Manner Of Sh*t Gives Me A Chuckle.
I SWEAR, Over The Years I've Watched Our Military Go From Tough
And Taking Orders, Doing What Your Told, And Sucking It Up,
To Looking Like You're Holding A Girl Scout Cookie Drive.
Everyone Want's Their Rights With No Responsibilities.
"But I Don't Wanna Do That Job, Let Someone Else Do It".
Whining Every Time They're Ordered To Do Something Outside Of Their Specialty.
"It's Not My Job"...... How Do Ya Run That Place?~ Ya Can't Be Very Efficient This Way!~
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
"No My Yob... I Didn't Do It. How Come I Have To Do It If He Doesn't."?
~ Exactly As I Pointed Out ~ That, Pretty Much, Covered All The Bases.
~ Exactly As I Pointed Out ~ That, Pretty Much, Covered All The Bases.
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Is it a requirement? That Is a hazy line. Do to the fact of sponsorship. Some soldiers require to be given a ride. If they are new or don't have a vehicle yet. Due to the fact of they don't know the installation yet. So as to someone who knows the installation it would be imperative for the sponsor to give the soldier a ride or at least ride with them (if they have a vehicle) as for it being mandatory though. That's a fat NO. Yes everyone has to get to formations, work, chow (if they choose too), and back home or barracks. I would say if you aren't the sponsor it is not your responsibility it is the NCO's responsibility aka team leader/squad leader to ensure that their soldiers get to the right place, right time, in the right uniform. However they can always just ask their team/squad for someone who lives close by to the soldier to give them a ride. As we all are suppose to work together. One of the purposes of the army isn't suppose to just a be a job but be a close cohesive team like a family. But it often doesn't go that way. But if you aren't the sponsor you can always just say no due it being your POV.
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As far as I know, like pretty much everyone has said, there is no regulation covering it. AR 600-20 gives Commanders a whole HELL of a lot of leeway to get the job done. A Commander could theoretically make an argument there regarding orders, but as already pointed out, the lawfulness of that order may be questionable.
But let me turn it around.... why do you not want to transport this Soldier?
If it is purely financial, that can be solved by charging gas money. And. O, there is nothing wrong with that, as long as you are not using it as a money making scheme - that gas money goes in the tank.
If it is time, then if it is on "duty hours," you have no true objection - your time belongs to the Army. If it is asking you to do EXTRA during after hours (not just take Snuffy back to the SAME Barracks you live in) that's a bit different. In that case, you may want to ask (and if you pitch it right, will likely get) some kind of time compensation. Maybe you get a three-day once a month, or a late work call every Friday, or some other such. The level of comp will depend on the level of sacrifice. But even then, remember that the Army life *is* sacrifice, so be careful how you pitch it, and be reasonable I your expectations.
If it is a case of "I don't like the guy," my answer is "tough titties." Unless there is a history of bona fide (i.e. reported) harassment, assault, or abuse, then suck it up, Buttercup. That is your battle buddy, for better or worse. You BOTH need to find a way to get along.
If it is a case of respect for you / your rules / your vehicle (e.g. PVT Snuffy smokes in your non-smoking car), then you need to bring that to the attention of whoever is asking / forcing you to transport Snuffy. Hey, Sarge, I got no problem giving Snuffy a ride as long as he respects my property. He has a history of smoking in my vehicle, even though I have asked him not to and told him directly it is not allowed in my car. If you are going to order me to transport Snuffy, can you please also order him not to smoke in or around my car? Thanks. (Or take his trash with him, not eat in car, leave the radio alone, etc.)
Bottom line is that it will be a very rare case that you will be given a lawful order to use your POV for military purposes (and this would be a military purpose). But even without a lawful order, and just a request, you should probably go ahead and do so because Soldiers take care of each other. If you won't give a battle buddy a ride in Garrison, what does that say about what you won't do far a battle buddy when things get much, much tougher? If there are specific barriers or obstacles to giving the ride, remove the barriers or navigate the obstacles instead of just refusing.
But let me turn it around.... why do you not want to transport this Soldier?
If it is purely financial, that can be solved by charging gas money. And. O, there is nothing wrong with that, as long as you are not using it as a money making scheme - that gas money goes in the tank.
If it is time, then if it is on "duty hours," you have no true objection - your time belongs to the Army. If it is asking you to do EXTRA during after hours (not just take Snuffy back to the SAME Barracks you live in) that's a bit different. In that case, you may want to ask (and if you pitch it right, will likely get) some kind of time compensation. Maybe you get a three-day once a month, or a late work call every Friday, or some other such. The level of comp will depend on the level of sacrifice. But even then, remember that the Army life *is* sacrifice, so be careful how you pitch it, and be reasonable I your expectations.
If it is a case of "I don't like the guy," my answer is "tough titties." Unless there is a history of bona fide (i.e. reported) harassment, assault, or abuse, then suck it up, Buttercup. That is your battle buddy, for better or worse. You BOTH need to find a way to get along.
If it is a case of respect for you / your rules / your vehicle (e.g. PVT Snuffy smokes in your non-smoking car), then you need to bring that to the attention of whoever is asking / forcing you to transport Snuffy. Hey, Sarge, I got no problem giving Snuffy a ride as long as he respects my property. He has a history of smoking in my vehicle, even though I have asked him not to and told him directly it is not allowed in my car. If you are going to order me to transport Snuffy, can you please also order him not to smoke in or around my car? Thanks. (Or take his trash with him, not eat in car, leave the radio alone, etc.)
Bottom line is that it will be a very rare case that you will be given a lawful order to use your POV for military purposes (and this would be a military purpose). But even without a lawful order, and just a request, you should probably go ahead and do so because Soldiers take care of each other. If you won't give a battle buddy a ride in Garrison, what does that say about what you won't do far a battle buddy when things get much, much tougher? If there are specific barriers or obstacles to giving the ride, remove the barriers or navigate the obstacles instead of just refusing.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
SFC Joe Mama OK, obviously fake a count. You can leave out the "use my POV to." Just say what you REALLY mean... "No, I will not carry out my military duties."
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1LT (Join to see)
SFC Casey O'Mally - If this person really was a SFC, they would remember their NCO creed.
"I know my Soldiers and I will always place their needs above my own." But Joe here wants to add, "so as long as there is no personal cost or inconvenience asked of me."
"I know my Soldiers and I will always place their needs above my own." But Joe here wants to add, "so as long as there is no personal cost or inconvenience asked of me."
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I'm an old fogey and retired, so haven't checked in a while, but there might be another issue here. You are using your POV for work. Unless your insurance company knows this and you pay the higher premium, there's a possibility that if something happens during these trips and your insurance finds out, they might not cover you. In cases of liability, this could be huge. Your Service might have forms to fill out to cover, but you could end up in a paperwork nightmare.
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