Posted on Nov 24, 2015
SSG Byron Hewett
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Awards: What awards are appropiate to give for retirement and what would a reason for and why an award and a retirement cermony or both be denied a SM when they have a clean record of service. I ask because this happened to my friend then they were also denied a flag. the only things that were received were the retirement certificates in the mail from the department of the Army and their Brigade.
Posted in these groups: Retirement logo RetirementUs medals Awards
Edited >1 y ago
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Responses: 58
SSG Jason Penn
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The individual soldier reserves the right to refuse any award at any time for any reason. When retiring, my command wanted to give me an ARCOM for 23 years of service with 3 deployments (all three with leadership roles at or above my grade). I received ARCOMs for each of my deployments to Iraq and a JSAM for my deployment to Bosnia. I told my 1SG (who wrote my award) that I didn't care what he put me in for, but not to waste the paper if it wasn't at least an MSM. Any award less than an MSM for a retiring soldier regardless of rank is a slap in the face. Although, the regulation allows for it, an award should be based on the individual's achievements and performance, not on their grade. After our discussion, my 1SG fought to get me the MSM that I ended up with. Though we didn't always see eye to eye, he was one of the best 1SGs that I had in my 23 year career. He fought for what he thought was right regardless of his personal feelings on the matter.
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SGM Mikel Dawson
SGM Mikel Dawson
7 y
All I received for my retirement is my pay. I got to agree with you. I'd tell them to shove it for an ARCOM.
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MSG Retired
MSG (Join to see)
2 y
I'm somewhat bitter over not getting a retirement award. I had even provided my last 10 years worth of NCOER's and other documents for reference. I served 36 "good" years with just over 15 years AFS. I even served in a GO command, and not 6 months before my retirement listened to the GO tell BDE/BN commanders/staff on a conference call, that absolutely no one who serves long enough for retirement should ever walk away without an award. Go figure.
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1SG Military Police
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The most egregious concern is why in the world he/she was denied a retirement flag to represent faithful service (I suspect because an admin NCO skipped that part of the retirement checklist). Beyond that, retirement ceremonies are optional and the SM generally bears the cost of the refreshments. As to awards, the most appropriate should be the one that is commensurate with the Soldier's accomplishments (to include rank & deployments) and length of service. Keep in mind that, according to regulation, anyone with "knowledge of" can write the award recommendation. Sometimes leaving that to the Commander or First Sergeant is problematic.
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1SG Military Police
1SG (Join to see)
>1 y
SSG Porter, Brad (1ea) - I agree...or if there is a peer that "has knowledge of," they could write the award as a development exercise and the PL, etc. that is also aware could sign it (benefit of rank consideration).
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LTC Stephen F.
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Depending on the soldier's prior awards and duty assignments, an MSM and perhaps Legion of Merit are appropriate awards SSG Byron Hewett.
If the soldier served in a joint billet a Defense Meritorious Medal could be appropriate.
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PO1 William "Chip" Nagel
PO1 William "Chip" Nagel
7 y
LTC Stephen F. - I also rather Like My LOA from Bill Clinton having finished My Career as Senior Spook on His Flag Ship, USS Arkansas CGN-41!
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
COL Mikel J. Burroughs
7 y
LTC Stephen F. & SFC David Benter The unit that is no longer around because it was deactivated still had a higher headquarters. In that case the Higher Headquarters would be responsible for trackign down the award or resubmitting the award. I've been retired since Feb 1, 2012 and I'm still working on awards that have fel throught the cracks for soldiers that were assigned in both of my last Commands. They haven't been lost at the Brigade level, they are getting lost at the ESC level or at USAR HQ's. Reach out to your prior Commander or higher headquarters to see if they will help. Not all of them are cooperative. You need to have an "Eagle" instead of "Duck" that will help you. I hope you appreciate the analogy!
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LTC Stephen F.
LTC Stephen F.
7 y
COL Mikel J. Burroughs - thank for weighing in my friend.
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
COL Mikel J. Burroughs
7 y
LTC Stephen F. - My pleasure - thanks for including me!
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What awards are appropiate to give for retirement?
SFC Michael Hasbun
10
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Assuming a clean record and good service, to me, the only two appropriate awards are MSM's and LOM's. ARCOM's are given away just for attending a deployment, so I feel it's inappropriate.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
SFC Michael Hasbun
>1 y
Pardon my French, but that's horseshit...
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LTC Substitute Teacher
LTC (Join to see)
>1 y
SFC Michael Hasbun - He should have gotten something; especially if he injured in Ireq; did he get his Purple Heart?
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LTC David B.
LTC David B.
>1 y
What was his deployment award? How many years did he serve? What was his TIG at current rank? Was he overweight or an APFT failure (or flagged for anything)?? If for overweight, yes he can still receive a retirement award but the senior NCOs in the chain will typically frown upon it; especially a high level award. (I can give a personal experience if you want)

He should get his flag at the retirements section; he can still go pick one up.
Why don't YOU submit him for a retirement award? Once submitted, and depending on the level of award, only certain command levels can return it (I.e.for an MSM, the company commander or even battalion commander can't return it without action. They are required to process it. If they can't because he's no longer on their rolls, submit it directly to DA.)
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SSG David Spooner
SSG David Spooner
>1 y
Agreed SSG Hasbun. The retirement award should at least be equivalent to or higher than the highest award received during the SM's service.
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CWO4 Jeff Grasz
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I do not have a solder's perspective and I do not know Army regulations on awards. I am a retired Marine Chief Warrant Officer and I have written and occasionally presented over two hundred awards while on active duty. From the DOD perspective, there is no award for retirement. There are two types of awards, the first are called impact awards and are to recognize a significant impact of a particular act. All the heroism awards are this type and they are written about the single act that stood out. The second are awards for "sustained superior performance" and are usually written and awarded at the end of a tour. A retirement award would fall into that category. The award is written about the accomplishments achieved at that last duty station. For a retirement they just add a sentence to commemorate the number of years of service, but the actual award is for the actions at the last duty station. As to the level of the award, in all cases it is supposed to be based on the impact of the act or actions. Often, rank has a play but the award is supposed to be based on the impact. What that means is if the action impacted the platoon or company, it should be a service achievement (i.e. Army Achievement, Navy Achievement, etc.). Battalion or Regiment should be a service commendation. MSM and up usually require an impact to a Brigade or Division. Higher impact = higher awards. Where rank comes into play is usually because of the limitations of what impact a particular rank has. Where the billet is also has a significant play in that.

As to the retirement ceremony, there too may be a difference between the Marine Corps and the Army, but is it difficult to not have a ceremony in the Corps. There are a few who manage to slip away quietly, but the majority will have at least a Battalion level formation. For our Marines, we usually have a flag flown at a specific location that is significant to that Marine and it comes with a certificate that certifies that day it was flown and in honor of that Marine's retirement. We usually try to get it flown on an anniversary date. My flag was flown at the Marine Memorial in Arlington on the anniversary of my graduation from basic training plus 30 years. I can't imagine why anyone would be denied that
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Sgt Hard Philips
Sgt Hard Philips
>1 y
Did my four and out in '72 & wasn't aware of the flag flying honor you describe. Way cool & quite the honor for you! Semper Fi, sir.
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GySgt Dan Brimmer
GySgt Dan Brimmer
6 y
must be nice! i did a little over 20 yrs..never an office hour or bad page 11 and i was refused a retirement ceremony..still haunts me to this day
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SMSgt Keith Stephens
9
9
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It's incredible to me how lazy senior members of units are. When I retired from the Air Force as a SMSgt E-8 I received two flags one from my unit and one from close friends. I closed out with 30 years, 12 in the US Army, and 18 in the US Air Force. I received an MSM for
retirement and a full ceremony from my entire unit. It was a truly good ceremony with much heartfelt thanks to all in my unit. The folks that trained me in hails, and farewells, to include retirements taught me well. I inturn trained my junior NCOs to take over from me. They put my retirement on and I was so proud to see how far they had come. To honor people not only for a lifetime of service but all through their careers is the only right way to do things. It's wrong to send folks away with nothing. My unit the 920th Rescue Wing I'm proud to say is one of the best by and far that recognizes the right thing to do. And we did it very well in peace and war.
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TSgt Alejandro Cuervo
TSgt Alejandro Cuervo
>1 y
Unfortunately SMSgt not all units have the same concerns for their members, you were fortunate to have been part of a good unit.
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TSgt Jack Manigold
TSgt Jack Manigold
>1 y
I am glad to see you had an outstanding retirement ceremony; you were lucky. I retired around the same time as other individuals in my unit. Most of the retirements were put on by SSgt's and junior TSgt's that have never put a retirement ceremony together. There was no guidance from leadership. If you were not one of the "boys", no awards were given and your flag was your responsibility to get. The leadership only made an appearance depending on the person. The MC and speakers were the same people who were appointed to do all of the ceromonies.
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SGM Senior Career Counselor
6
6
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Its really beyond my comprehension how any leadership could let someone retire without submitting them for a retirement award. I attended an installation retirement ceremony (conducted monthly) at Ft Benning not to long ago and saw an SFC presented with an AAM as a retirement award. I thought that was a slap in the face. Personally, I wouldn't have bothered to go if I new they were giving me an AAM for 20 plus years of service. Retirement awards can cover a 10 year period of time, I don't think its too much to expect to receive an MSM for a successful 20 year career. If you held positions of greater responsibility an LOM should not be out of the question.
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SFC(P) Battalion S4 Logistics Ncoic
SFC(P) (Join to see)
>1 y
Would have walked off the stage without it. You know most Soldiers there are thinking the same thing. 20 years and an AAM? Wow.
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SGM Senior Career Counselor
SGM (Join to see)
>1 y
The killer is the guy had his family present. I don't think I would have walked off, but I think I would have known in advance what they were going to present to me
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SFC Combat Engineer
SFC (Join to see)
>1 y
I'm not going to sugar coat it. I would have lost my shit. That is flat out disrespectful.
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SGT David T.
6
6
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I have a novel idea why not only give awards to those who are deserving based on the nature and quality of their service. Separation/retirement awards should not be done for every Soldier. Not every Soldier who separates or retires was deserving of an award. If they only did their job and nothing more then why should should they get anything additional? Awards should be awarded to those who are truly exceptional and not just given out just because. I am sure this will ruffle some feathers but after some of the oxygen thieves I have seen get awarded these types of awards I have my biases about such things. Sorry if I offended any of the oxygen thieves with this post.
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SGT David T.
SGT David T.
>1 y
SSG Brian MacBain - Normal people don't get awards for simply doing their job or simply working somewhere and not doing a good job. They get accolades for going above and beyond. I have seen so many awards given to "senior" people based on rank alone and not the quality of their character or their work. I don't think someone who retires deserves anything other than their retirement benefits based on that alone. If they get an award it should be because they did great and amazing things not just rode out their time.
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SSG Brian MacBain
SSG Brian MacBain
>1 y
@SGT David Thomas, Well, if you had done 20, I think you would feel different. Each one of us has their own opinions and that is yours and will respect that. Yes, I have seen seniors get higher awards then enlisted when they did the same thing. Nature of the beast. Is that right? I do not think so as well you don't either. However like you, I stand with my original comment that either a MSM or a Joint award if serving in a joint command such as USCENTCOM. However, if that person decided to be lazy in his last year(s) of service due to that he knows he/she is going to retire, then a lower award should be given. Again SGT Thomas, thank you for your service.
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SGT David T.
SGT David T.
>1 y
SSG Brian MacBain I get what you are saying. I would be cool with some sort of retirement award that was only for that purpose. What I am not in favor of is handing out MSM or LOM just because someone does 20 years. I feel the same way about handing everyone ARCOMs for a deployment. Awards like that are for doing something above and beyond the standard. Handing them out like candy in a sense cheapens what the award is supposed to mean. I am not saying don't give them something only that merit awards should be based on you know....merit.
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SSG Brian MacBain
SSG Brian MacBain
3 y
SGT David T. - Agreed, When I had retired, I was stationed at Joint Command (CENTCOM) and received a Joint Commendation Medal. I was originally put in for MSM, someone in the food chain felt differently. It is what it is. Yes, I work my tail off until I retired. I felt I had deserved the MSM with 6 ARCOM's 6, AAMs, never received any Art 15's and probably most of 7 counseling's in a 20yr period, but it what it is. I do understand and agree with you just because you did 20 is not a guarantee for a LOM or MSM.
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SGT Scott Henderson
5
5
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That's messed up but at the same time if you're out who gives a shit. Employers don't care about awards.
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GySgt John O'Donnell
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5
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Retirement awards in the Marine Corps are not guarrenteed just because of 20+ years served. They must be warranted for outstanding service at the last assignment, and specifics for the awards presented must meet standards that correlate with rank, responsibility, and billet assignment. The awards system in the Marine Corps is less elevated than other services, so for individual's E6-E7 the Navy/Marine Corps Commendation Medal would not be unusual, and the same is true for the Meritorious Service Medal for E8-E9. Next higher awards (MSM / LOM) signify significantly greater performance or billet responsibility at the time of award.
Through recognition of 20+ years of service should be recognized, it should not be automatically assumed that a certain medal should be awarded, unless it's a standardized "service" medal for all branches of the Armed Forces. To do so cheapens the "personal" award system, and the efforts of truly warranted service members.
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