Posted on Jul 2, 2017
PO3 Daniel Stone
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CPT Bn S 1/ Det Commander
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From my perspective, I have noticed that being on time, wanting structure, and holding others accountable, while might not be and ugly habit, is a habit that some don't understand and cause the concern that we may be to rigid for their "job fit".
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SPC Jeremy Gardner
SPC Jeremy Gardner
>1 y
I will agree with this. I arrive on time and do my job, but there are many others that I have worked with that get paid to slack off and do nothing. It is aggravating to know that I am working hard, and they are hardly working. The hardest thing they do is probably lift the coffee cup to their lips. Its a sad thing to have to deal with and then have to sit there and be silent about it because management does not care to hear it.
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CPO Gregory Smith
CPO Gregory Smith
>1 y
Agreed. I have this crazy idea that people should actually do their job. Whenever I ask why something isn't done I get a list of excuses I wouldn't except from my 11 year old son, much less an adult in a supervisory role. Even more infuriating is when their boss backs up their bull$hit.
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Sgt Field Radio Operator
Sgt (Join to see)
>1 y
SPC Jeremy Gardner - I also did not like to see people slacking and not putting in a honest day's work. In the final years of the Space Shuttle Program, The workforce shrank dramatically. The section I was in, shrank from 14 people to one. I was the last person to leave, one month after the last flight. I was the last one because I knew all of the section tasks, and could perform them well.
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SPC Jeremy Gardner
SPC Jeremy Gardner
>1 y
I try to do an honest days work myself, even if I have to create work by going and talking to people to find out issues on the systems I have to fix. I find that some of the people I work with at not that great at reporting everything, or just don't care enough.
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MAJ R. Andrew Hoskinson
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Use of profanity is the biggest one. Second is having a quick temper - seen as an asset in many military situations, but definitely a liability in most civilian sectors.
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1LT William Clardy
1LT William Clardy
>1 y
Just a minor nit, MAJ R. Andrew Hoskinson, but there's a difference between having a quick temper and an on-call temper. A good NCO can go ballistic with no warning whenever the situation demands it -- and turn it off just as quickly once his soldier are moving out sharply to accomplish whatever they were supposed to be doing. A quick-tempered NCO has a hard time backing off when further histrionics are a waste of time and energy.
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SGT Tony Clifford
SGT Tony Clifford
>1 y
Sir, the "quick temper" you mentioned is an act. When we yell at a soldier, it is very infrequent that were actually angry with that soldier. Sometimes a young soldier needs that extra motivation that only a good yell can accomplish. A soldier that would ask why they when given a task gets yelled at to do it. If there is time to explain why, I'd usually do so while they perform the task. Being a NCO requires that you be harsh at times, but being harsh and angry aren't the same thing.
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MAJ R. Andrew Hoskinson
MAJ R. Andrew Hoskinson
>1 y
SGT Tony Clifford - Well, spin it however you like, but having a habit of chewing out co-workers in most civilian occupations will not end well for you.
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Maj John Bell
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The civilian world needs quite a bit of "fertilizer" in the form of tact. In the military world, tact is a liability.
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Maj John Bell
Maj John Bell
>1 y
1LT William Clardy - I presume you are talking about genuine issues facing a command. I would assume that you are genuinely concerned for the mission, combat readiness, and fiscal responsibility. If you have well-thought out concerns get them on the table NOW. Then I would consider those issues. If I am your senior then I have a decision, discuss and seek consensus or common sense compromise; or issue a command, expect immediate intelligent obedience, and accept accountability if I am wrong.

Human lives are at stake. I did not have the time for unnecessary niceties and I had zero tolerance for "verbal dances" from juniors intended to preserve my feelings.
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1LT William Clardy
1LT William Clardy
>1 y
Maj John Bell, I am pointing out that within the military, we literally have written protocols which automatically incorporate tact into our aural and written communications, so much so that you don't notice them unless they're omitted. Take a moment and think about all the meaning conveyed by adding the word "sir" or "sergeant" at the end of a sentence. It's an incredibly powerful social time-saver which earns its keep every time lives are at stake. Also consider how easily *not* including that word can momentarily disrupt communications, distracting a senior by obliging him or her to explicitly remind the junior of the relationship.
Civilians don't have that built-in social mechanism, so they have to wing it in every message and every conversation – and they expect to see or hear it in every conversation. I learned long ago that I became a lot more persuasive by throwing "boss" in any place I would have said "sir" while I was in uniform (as opposed to just leaving off the "sir").
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Maj John Bell
Maj John Bell
>1 y
1LT William Clardy - OK... I think you are in the picayune nuance weeds of definitions of tact, courtesy, and respect. I suspect that you understood what I meant. Perhaps that is the Army's corporate culture, it was not the Marines'. But how about.... in the Marines I was expected to be "uncompromisingly forthright" and view someone who pays too much time to niceties as a nuisance, more suited to the Foreign Service.
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1LT William Clardy
1LT William Clardy
>1 y
I understood exactly what you meant, Maj John Bell, and I don't see any significant difference in Army versus Marine culture (at least, not the Army I served in).
I am merely offering an explanation for why veterans perceive civilians co-workers as overly concerned with tact and other social niceties -- it's all too common that we think of those customs and courtesies long ago drilled into our behavior as merely ceremonial and don't realize just how functional and efficient (and important to the organization) those formal courtesies really are.
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