Posted on Mar 12, 2019
What can I do if I have been flagged for adverse action but I'm not sure why?
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I was flagged for adverse action. I haven’t been counseled or read an article 15. I work in the s1 shop and there’s no flags in the files for me. No one on the floor flagged me so it was my OIC. My commander and OIC often do things under the table without the correct documentation.
I posted before that I was being recommended for chapter after failing my second APFT. The second APFT by regulation isn’t supposed to count but they are still pushing the chapter. I’ve reached out to everyone I could and they’ve reached out to my commander to tell them that the chapter would not go through but they’re still pushing it. Ever since then they have been tormenting me, cancelling my baby appointments to attend SFL TAP, cancelling my behavioral health appointments (to deal with this stressful situation) no authoritzing my BAH to move out of the barracks and now I have a random adverse action flag. I’m not sure what to do next I’ve been to IG countless times. I’ve been to legal, I’ve been to my CSM. Everytime I post here I here “suck it up” or “stop crying” but I honestly feel like I am being mistreated. Soldiers in my company have had BOTH DUI’s and failed drug tests and that soldier is still in the army. One got in trouble for adultery and failed drug test, another got arrested for domestic violence, purposely hit someone with a car, committed adultery, lied about rape, article 15 for lying about going to pt to the 1SG and they are not kicking any of these soldiers out.
I promise there are no underlying issues with me only
The fact that I’m trying to defend myself and I’m doing it respectfully.
I posted before that I was being recommended for chapter after failing my second APFT. The second APFT by regulation isn’t supposed to count but they are still pushing the chapter. I’ve reached out to everyone I could and they’ve reached out to my commander to tell them that the chapter would not go through but they’re still pushing it. Ever since then they have been tormenting me, cancelling my baby appointments to attend SFL TAP, cancelling my behavioral health appointments (to deal with this stressful situation) no authoritzing my BAH to move out of the barracks and now I have a random adverse action flag. I’m not sure what to do next I’ve been to IG countless times. I’ve been to legal, I’ve been to my CSM. Everytime I post here I here “suck it up” or “stop crying” but I honestly feel like I am being mistreated. Soldiers in my company have had BOTH DUI’s and failed drug tests and that soldier is still in the army. One got in trouble for adultery and failed drug test, another got arrested for domestic violence, purposely hit someone with a car, committed adultery, lied about rape, article 15 for lying about going to pt to the 1SG and they are not kicking any of these soldiers out.
I promise there are no underlying issues with me only
The fact that I’m trying to defend myself and I’m doing it respectfully.
Pregnancy
APFT
Toxic Leadership
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 14
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I would recommend, like other leaders have suggested, speak with the IG. But you MUST have documented proof to your allegations of wrong doing. While you point out other wrongs, you may not be aware of the consequences. Although being in the S1, I find that hard to believe. It is your right to know what the flagging action is for. If it's for failing your APFT a counseling statement should have been done. Any flagging action requires that the Soldier know and understand the why, what, and where. The Leader is also responsible to follow up to eventually lift the flag. Unfortunately, many leaders forget the basics. Mentorship has gone to the wayside. IF your unit is as bad as you say, use your open door policy to speak with the CSM/SGM of your higher echelon. IF that does not work, file a Congressional. The type of behavior going on in your unit, as you describe it, needs to be known. Soldiers and those leaders ignoring that type of horrible behavior needs to be punished. For any Leader to say "Suck it up" is wrong. While we are on this to mentor Soldiers and allow Soldier to ask questions, we as leaders, are not here to criticize. We can suggest an action based on what you are stating. If you need to talk, DM me.
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If there is an APFT chapter pending, and there are no counselings about it, plus what ever other documents are missing (and it sounds like there may be missing documents), Legal is going to kick that packet back down. It will be rejected. Of course, your unit will just restart it. Also, just because your command cancelled your behavioral health appointments doesn't mean you can't do an unannounced visit to express your stress. If, at each level higher you go and there is no resolve, then keep going higher.
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well - I am going to be that NCO, You failed an APFT, had you not failed the APFT, you would not be in the predicament you are in now. Second, the regulations state that the second test is to be administered within 90 days by agreement between you and command, but NOT to exceed 90 days. so, if that 90 day window was closing, you HAD to take the APFT for record whether you agree or not. Third, the day you failed your APFT, a flag and a chapter packet would have occurred.
So, while I have empathy and sympathy for your situation, I cannot but say, this is a problem that you created.
So, while I have empathy and sympathy for your situation, I cannot but say, this is a problem that you created.
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SSG Robert Perrotto
PV2 (Join to see) - Again I sympathize, but you brought this on yourself. why did you fail the first one? Had you not failed it, (individual physical fitness is a responsibility of the Soldier), you would not be in this situation.
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SSG Robert Perrotto
So - let me get this straight, cuz some stuff is not adding up. Were you pregnant for the first APFT? if not, then YOU failed to meet the requirements, thus putting yourself into this situation. Yes - I was a hard NCO, and I firmly believe in accountability, responsibility, and consequences. So, now the Army is going to carry your sorry ass until such time as you can take an APFT, and that FLAG is going to stay put until you pass it. Another thing, as I re read your post, you work in S-1, and you are utilizing your access to violate other Soldiers privacy. This is not a good thing, what goes on between those Soldiers and Command is not your business, and I would be real careful in the future regarding this.
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PV2 (Join to see)
SSG Robert Perrotto you’re literally missing the whole entire point. I WAS PREGNANT SO THE TEST DOES NOT COUNT. BUT THEY ARE COUNTING IT. I understand my flag stays but a chapter for 2 failed apft is erroneous because I was pregnant for the second.
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IG and or JAG. If you already have do so again. DOCUMENT everything. I mean keep an electric journal and document every cancelled appointment, every change in status..etc.
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CPT (Join to see)
PFC Jeffrey Herrington - He/she can contact JAG, but I'm not sure what they can do before anything official is filed. JAG only represents military concerns, but the important thing is to document and print and keep records so that when he/she does get a JAG he has the information they need to defend him/her.
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Take a breath and a long step back.
You have something more important to deal with, as you alluded to as the reason for the invalidated 2d APFT. The health of that pregnancy is more important than unit drama.
Being Flagged is your reality until you are able to take a record APFT again, in like 9 months. Set that aside, because the flavor of the FLAG is less important than the reason why.
Take care of you. Stay active and healthy and set yourself up for success when you come off profile. Show them up for being down on you, because you are better than that.
One more thing that I'd be remiss for not mentioning. You are in a position of trust in the S-1 shop and as such might be privy to some of the dirty laundry you mention in the original post. SHUT THE F--- UP ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE'S BUSINESS!!!. This is a surefire way to get yourself in real trouble, and they would be right to do so. What About XXX does not work in the Army; do not attempt it.
Asking the forum for advice is a good idea.
Putting your unit's ass out on the internet is not a good idea.
So closed circuit from a former S-1 NCO to a current S-1 troop, don't do that.
You have something more important to deal with, as you alluded to as the reason for the invalidated 2d APFT. The health of that pregnancy is more important than unit drama.
Being Flagged is your reality until you are able to take a record APFT again, in like 9 months. Set that aside, because the flavor of the FLAG is less important than the reason why.
Take care of you. Stay active and healthy and set yourself up for success when you come off profile. Show them up for being down on you, because you are better than that.
One more thing that I'd be remiss for not mentioning. You are in a position of trust in the S-1 shop and as such might be privy to some of the dirty laundry you mention in the original post. SHUT THE F--- UP ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE'S BUSINESS!!!. This is a surefire way to get yourself in real trouble, and they would be right to do so. What About XXX does not work in the Army; do not attempt it.
Asking the forum for advice is a good idea.
Putting your unit's ass out on the internet is not a good idea.
So closed circuit from a former S-1 NCO to a current S-1 troop, don't do that.
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PV2 (Join to see)
1SG, They are trying to chapter me out even though I was pregnant (and still am) during the PT test that’s the problem because it is stopping me from moving out of the barracks and preparing for the arrival of my child. I mentioned the other soldiers (which was wrong) because I feel like I am being singled out.
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1SG (Join to see)
PV2 (Join to see) - I know why you did it, Jaden. So long as you understand that stuff like that has ramifications, I have done my part.
If I read between the lines, you are saying that the unit won't let you move into non-barracks housing because you are flagged, and your concern is that you can't have a new baby in the barracks. Am I correct?
What is your due date?
If I read between the lines, you are saying that the unit won't let you move into non-barracks housing because you are flagged, and your concern is that you can't have a new baby in the barracks. Am I correct?
What is your due date?
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As stated in previous comments, have you talked to IG yet? Where is your supervisor while all of this is going on? I’m definitely confused on how your command is able to cancel an appointment for your child. Also, why are you in the barracks and not receiving BAH for your child?
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PV2 (Join to see)
I am currently pregnant, they cancel my OBGYN appointments so I can attend sfl tap classes. I’ve been to Ig 2 times and they have advised my commander that the chapter is erroneous because I was pregnant during my second APFT. (I forgot to mention). I’m still pregnant but they will not sign my BAH because they are recommending me for chapter. I need to love because I am getting much bigger and the ice around the barracks is horrible. My nco was helping me but my 1SG began to shut her out and not include her in anything dealing with me because he fees that we are “too close” and she is taking up for me. But we are roughly the only females in my company and she is my nco so we have a normal soldier nco relationship.
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SFC (Join to see)
Anytime you do anything in reference to this make sure your NCO is there to help guide you through the process. If legal is telling them it’s erroneous then 9 times out of 10 the process is at a stand still, so more than likely you’re not going to get a separation date. They do not have enough to process for separation. You can either pursue your medical or you can separate under a Chapter 8 which is pregnancy. Talk to JAG/legal with your NCO so you can get more information
As far as moving out of the barracks, refer to AR 420-1, once you are 7 months pregnant you have to move out of the barracks for you and your child’s safety. PV2 (Join to see)
As far as moving out of the barracks, refer to AR 420-1, once you are 7 months pregnant you have to move out of the barracks for you and your child’s safety. PV2 (Join to see)
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Maj John Bell
I worked in the Commanding General's (CG's) office in 2nd Marine Division. I think this is the same level you call IG in the Army. In the Marines IG means, or at least meant, the Commandant's office. Anyways... If all you are relating is spot on, alarm bells and buzzers should be going off.
I worked under two different CG's and when investigating a complaint to the CG's office, I reported directly to the CG, including follow-up.
_If a Battalion or Regimental Commander was told by the CG's office that an administrative action (in this case a flag) was improper, nobody involved with the service record book better secure for the day, until the flag was removed. Working in the CG's office, I'd have been "shit canned" if I came back to the CG's Command Post before ensuring corrective action was complete.
_If a medical appointment, particularly pre-natal care, was cancelled by the command, against the wishes of the Marine; the Unit CO better be on the phone with the CG's inspecting officer (me) before the appointment was cancelled.
I have a very hard time believing that an Army General is any more forgiving than a Marine General, about being blown off.
_Get all your ducks in a row.
_Put it down on paper. Specific details. Who, what, when, where, why. No opinions...just facts.
_Edit out anything that isn't relevant and isn't specific to your case.
_Ask someone you trust to read your narrative. This person should be someone who has been around the military more than 1 enlistment. Preferably, they should not be familiar with the events or personalities (If they haven't been involved and haven't observed, but can make sense of it, you narrative is good.)
_If they have questions, don't explain; re-write you narrative until they don't have questions
_Send your narrative to your Representatives, Senator, and the White House (CG's hate that).
If anything in your narrative is not true, or is misleading... you have a bumpy road ahead. If it is all factual and not subject to misinterpretation,, with no fear of reprisal because the people who want to reprise will be gone or picking what is left of themselves off the floor.
Any time anyone tells you to cancel a medical appointment, unless the enemy is in the wire and the chain of command is distributing ammunition and issuing fire commands, get it in writing.
I worked under two different CG's and when investigating a complaint to the CG's office, I reported directly to the CG, including follow-up.
_If a Battalion or Regimental Commander was told by the CG's office that an administrative action (in this case a flag) was improper, nobody involved with the service record book better secure for the day, until the flag was removed. Working in the CG's office, I'd have been "shit canned" if I came back to the CG's Command Post before ensuring corrective action was complete.
_If a medical appointment, particularly pre-natal care, was cancelled by the command, against the wishes of the Marine; the Unit CO better be on the phone with the CG's inspecting officer (me) before the appointment was cancelled.
I have a very hard time believing that an Army General is any more forgiving than a Marine General, about being blown off.
_Get all your ducks in a row.
_Put it down on paper. Specific details. Who, what, when, where, why. No opinions...just facts.
_Edit out anything that isn't relevant and isn't specific to your case.
_Ask someone you trust to read your narrative. This person should be someone who has been around the military more than 1 enlistment. Preferably, they should not be familiar with the events or personalities (If they haven't been involved and haven't observed, but can make sense of it, you narrative is good.)
_If they have questions, don't explain; re-write you narrative until they don't have questions
_Send your narrative to your Representatives, Senator, and the White House (CG's hate that).
If anything in your narrative is not true, or is misleading... you have a bumpy road ahead. If it is all factual and not subject to misinterpretation,, with no fear of reprisal because the people who want to reprise will be gone or picking what is left of themselves off the floor.
Any time anyone tells you to cancel a medical appointment, unless the enemy is in the wire and the chain of command is distributing ammunition and issuing fire commands, get it in writing.
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According to your previous post, the second APFT failure did count; the failure of the first APFT failure would have led to a flag; and, initiation of the chapter would also have resulted in a flag. It was recommended that you ask the BN CDR for the opportunity to take another APFT. Did you?
You're not being picked on, and what anyone else has done isn't relevant to your situation.
You're not being picked on, and what anyone else has done isn't relevant to your situation.
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1SG (Join to see)
PV2 (Join to see) according to you original post, you weren't diagnosed as pregnant until after the second failure, and the regulation governing that was provided you, then.
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PV2 (Join to see)
1SG this is the regulation. It has been confirmed by IG and Legal that the APFT does not count. Yet my leadership still counts it 1SG.
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PV2 (Join to see)
1SG (Join to see) AR 600-8-2
2-3 last line of paragraph b.
“If as determined by the primary care provide the soldier was pregnant at the time of the APFT failure, the commander will immediately remove the flag as erroneous”
2-3 last line of paragraph b.
“If as determined by the primary care provide the soldier was pregnant at the time of the APFT failure, the commander will immediately remove the flag as erroneous”
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1SG (Join to see)
First, your original claim in this post was you didn't know why you were flagged. In your previous post, and this one, you acknowledge you had failed one APFT (Flagged), then failed a second one (Still flagged even if you are determined on profile for being pregnant), and that you are being processed for a chapter for the APFT failures (Flagged). You have spoken to the IG and JAG, but don't know why you are flagged?
As asked the last time you posted this, but not answered (and possibly a time or two that may have been deleted under another name):
What was the length of time between the APFT failure and the diagnosis of pregnancy?
Also, did your physician determine that you were pregnant at the time the APFT was administered and provide you any documentation supporting his diagnosis that you were pregnant during the second APFT?
As asked the last time you posted this, but not answered (and possibly a time or two that may have been deleted under another name):
What was the length of time between the APFT failure and the diagnosis of pregnancy?
Also, did your physician determine that you were pregnant at the time the APFT was administered and provide you any documentation supporting his diagnosis that you were pregnant during the second APFT?
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I would challenge it and if you don't get an adequate answer/counseling from them then start working up the chain of command so that you have the opportunity to either resolve the issue or figure out what you need to improve.
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They have the freedom to bar you at anytime. Now as far as actual punishment, you do have to be counseled. I'd definitely reach out to IG or JAG.
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The flag is probably from your first failed APFT. They stay on until the APFT is passed. The code should be on your ERB, look it up in the regs and it will tell you what it's for.
Something to help your frame of mind- stop comparing yourself to anyone else's situations. There are mitigating and extenuating circumstances in every situation and you dont know everything about every situation. As long as you compare yourself to other people situations you will continue to be unhappy and stressed out. Not saying it will solve your problems, bit it's a good start.
Something to help your frame of mind- stop comparing yourself to anyone else's situations. There are mitigating and extenuating circumstances in every situation and you dont know everything about every situation. As long as you compare yourself to other people situations you will continue to be unhappy and stressed out. Not saying it will solve your problems, bit it's a good start.
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BS- 1. If you are flagged, there will be a reason, and if you work in S! it must be in your files. 2. Commanders authorize BAH, right know (until the baby is close to due date) they DO NOT have to authorize BAH. 3. Ok lawyer, who say the 2nd APFT doesn't count? Until you get that resolved, you may have a problem.4. If these things are causing you to seek help now, then a baby will probably make you a basket case. 5. If you have been to the JAG and IG, and nothing has been fixed, done they must be right and you must be wrong. When is happening to others is not your problem, and I doubt a PVT actually knows what is going on in the CoC concerning the punishment/chapter, etc. of others. You should be worrying about your problems.
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PV2 (Join to see)
CSM, IG and legal have informed the command team that my apft doesn’t count because I was pregnant they have been informed plenty of times that the chapter is not valid yet they still push it. If I wait until longer to move out of the barracks I will not physically be able to due to being pregnant
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SGM Bill Frazer
Then Who says it is going forward? If JAG & IG are telling the CO it won't fly, then it won't!. And if /when they move it up the CoC to higher HQ, they will turn it down!. Strongly suggest you get something in writing from JAG on the AFPT, and then have an talk using Open Door policy with the Cdr with the JAG opinion. As for BAH, you need to REASON with them- you do know that you can be chaptered out for the baby coming. Cause- 1. You can carry the baby around all day will working. 2. The service is not going to pay for childcare, wet nurse, etc. 3. You haven't said squat about setting up a Family Care Plan, which is mandatory if you plan on staying in. 5. Maybe you should get the straight story- ever think that the chapter is over the pregnancy and not the AFPT?
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You said you are being chaptered. However erroneous you may believe that chapter to be, you are being chaptered. A chapter is an adverse action.......you have an adverse action flag. You don't know why????? It has been too long since I prepared flags for my CDR, and I am far too lazy to go looking them up. It may be that this is the WRONG flag for a chapter.... but I am guessing that is the reason.
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If you didnt do anything, like you say, S1 will conduct their monthly audit. When they do, all flags that are erroneous will come off. Flags placed by accident, flags placed under the table, flags without proper paperwork, etc...
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Honestly, and this is just purely a suggestion, of course, go see the chaplains at your installation...I frequently suggest that on here for such circumstances as yours, for myriad reasons...chaplains, generally, or clerics in general, are often exposed to doing a good deal of what essentially amounts to social work...plus, they can often handle things in instances like yours where other more typical approaches might frequently not work...they can always run it up their chaplain command chain as well, possibly, I should think, if they're not getting what they deem to me adequate answers...of course, I could well be wrong, however, I honestly think there'd be nothing for you to lose in trying such an approach, if you get anywhere, or have any thoughts, I'd by all means be most eager to know, and/or hear them, of course, anytime. Likewise if you'd care to chat at all about my notion at all, as well...as I'd said, just a thought, honest, for whatever it might be worth, OK?
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