Posted on Jul 1, 2014
What constitutes being "old school" in the military?
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I'm hearing/reading people saying "I'm old school, therefore..." So out of curiosity's sake, where is that ever-moving line?
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Military History
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 1808
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Muskets and black powder...not being able to walk without a cane or walker, having had to fight the VA for decades, and watched and heard about hundreds of thousands of our comrades die or decompose prematurely because of atomic war fallout, Agent Orange, Gulf War Illness and other toxins, and for the generations of medically impacted children because of our altered DNA and other unmet needs. Understanding the betrayal that can be continuous and unrelenting once you are out.
These reasons, and many others, are why I put so much time, money and effort into doing what I do with Vets-Help - from the halls of the White House and Congress to people in the street. The sense of responsibility I feel to our brothers and sisters, and their families, has never diminished over time.
I ask for your prayers and good vibes on this Veterans Day as we honor our own. We are pushing hard because we are old grunts and that is what we do. My body has failed in a number of ways, but that only makes me more determined because I have greater empathy for those with needs I never understood before.
God Bless everyone, and blessings to those who do not believe.
These reasons, and many others, are why I put so much time, money and effort into doing what I do with Vets-Help - from the halls of the White House and Congress to people in the street. The sense of responsibility I feel to our brothers and sisters, and their families, has never diminished over time.
I ask for your prayers and good vibes on this Veterans Day as we honor our own. We are pushing hard because we are old grunts and that is what we do. My body has failed in a number of ways, but that only makes me more determined because I have greater empathy for those with needs I never understood before.
God Bless everyone, and blessings to those who do not believe.
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SGT Craig Northacker
Thanks, folks - I just got a call today to schedule C&P examinations. What a process - a VA medical clinic head in an unnamed state (not NY where I live) shook her head and told me she was so tired of the "Deny, deny, until they die" mantra chanted inside the venerable halls.
I know how hard many of the folks work, and I know they are hamstrung by policies created by people which were designed to deny every right we have under the law. Those are the ones who need to be held accountable.
I know how hard many of the folks work, and I know they are hamstrung by policies created by people which were designed to deny every right we have under the law. Those are the ones who need to be held accountable.
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PV2 Abbott Shaull
Well when you look at from the point of view is the V.A. doctors and folks you go to see for service connected disability are nothing more than Corporate Doctors. It is their job to protect the Government as much as possible from fraud. Like a lot of people who work with the V.A. they seem to forget that they only have job due to us to begin with. If it wasn't for us vets, they would be working else where. Next like many of the case workers I have seen my family deal with for food stamps, they act like we are taking benefits directly out of their paychecks. The records show I broke both bones in my right leg, and there are bolts in my right leg, I have degenerative arthritis. I was never told my right leg was tad bit shorter due to surgery, so after walking, running and jumping on it, and ankle starting to give out, it has let to issue with my back. Which I have been told by Doctor who worked and document on my file that it was likely all related to injury so many years ago. Just gets to me that act so stupid, blind, deaf, and dumb. Yes it is frustrating that they deny the ones who need the help, but they roll over pay people 100 disability to people for drug and drinking issue they claim that started after they got into the military, and many times they are only weeks out of boot camp when it comes up. Come on, common sense should tell the people booting the individuals out, they had these issue before they joined, so the Military and the V.A. afterward should be paying them 100% disability for pre-existing condition.
Not all people who work for the V.A. are looking out for the Government. There are quite a few who are looking out for us, but many times they get over-ruled by others who aren't looking out for us.
Not all people who work for the V.A. are looking out for the Government. There are quite a few who are looking out for us, but many times they get over-ruled by others who aren't looking out for us.
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SGT Craig Northacker
True - there are many working for the VA that are as frustrated as we are, and are good people, as well as veterans. I have met others who are not. There are many outmoded fiscal and other policies that need to be dispensed with because they are not accurate, do not follow the law, and hurt the US GNP far more than help, and as such belie the one claim we always here - "Protect the taxpayer's dollar". In fact, their denials cost the US Government substantially more than the requested benefits would ever cost.
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PO2 Joan MacNeill
The organization Disabled American Veterans is famous for helping veterans get proper attention from the VA. If anyone is having trouble with VA on a valid claim, look them up.
I was lucky, didn't need them. My local VA treated me wonderfully.
I was lucky, didn't need them. My local VA treated me wonderfully.
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MSgt Robert Cunningham
some light the polish some light the boot . round and round withe a tee shirt
until had no more spit . the water
until had no more spit . the water
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Depends on the member, for me old school M-1 was a rifle not a tank. M-16 was an anti-tank mine not a rifle. Grenades were thrown, or launched from the grenade launcher adapter on the end of your rifle, the squad automatic weapon was the BAR. In a platoon there were 1911 45 cal pistols. M-1 carbines, M-1 Garand, BARs, M1918 30 cal MGs, and 3.5 in rocket launcher. In Europe that changed to M1911 45 cal s, pistols, M-14s, M-60 mg, grenade launcher for the M-14, and 3.5 in rocket launcher. The M-16,and later the M-16A1 were deployed with grenade launched off the flash suppressor, later the M-79 grenade launcher appeared. Vehicles M-38, M-38A1, and M151 jeeps, M-37 A1-5 3/4 ton trucks, M35 plain M35A1 and 2. Those to me are old school.
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Having a duffle bag with one handle, not shoulder straps!
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SPC (Join to see)
I think mine had two straps. BCT issue in 1978. Was thrown out years ago because it had holes and tears in it.
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If you were an expert with the LAW and Dragon (especially if you know what a C 2 identifier was)...........
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CSM Charles Hayden Passed 7/29/2025
M-1 Garands only had an eight round clip, not a magazine. Or did you have M-1s?
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MSG John Wirts
Yes I did, in basic, and when they started to move us to the beaches in florida during the Cuban Missile crisis. 8 round spring clips, m14 had 20 round magazines.
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SPC Paul Eiden
MSG John Wirts - I just had finished basic when this happened. Sat on our duffel bags ready to ship out.
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When the standards were true. Soldiers "Deal with the suck". Did not complain, obeyed the law, did not have stress cards for boot camp. Did what it took to won. Did not have pansy rules of engagement and a person who did did not say America is sorry.
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SSG Audwin Scott
Basically suck it up and drive up, don't question authority continue the mission first!
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SGT Randall Smith
I enlisted just after I got notified I would be drafted. Was getting ready to turn 22, smoked 2 packs a day and was over weight and worked in a dept. store. I was not a shining example of a young recruit of 18 years old. Our 3rd week we took a little run, 5 miles. We were told that there would be a 3/4 ton truck behind for those who could not hack it. With a mile left to go our Plt. Sgt fell back and told me to drop out. My nose was bleeding, one ear had blood showing and I could not see. Not being in the best of moods I said something rude and vulgar to him. As soon as I said it I knew I was in the deep do do. But he had three guys fall back and help me the last mile. Those who rode back in the truck had to run that every Sat. until they could complete it. There were no time out cards in the 60's.
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Being over 40 and still on active duty. You sometimes feel like Rip Van Winkle. Where did all those teenagers come from?
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CW5 Sam R. Baker
LMBO, try being over 50 and still on active duty! I said that same thing when I went to the Iron bowl some 10 years ago when I was 40!
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SSG Maurice P.
try being 57 and retiring active duty hehehehehehehe as a staff sergeant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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MSG John Wirts
My sister was AF briefly, she got married and got pregnant, end of career. We were at my father's memorial service, the honor guard rendered appropriate military honors, taps and firing squad, presented the flag to the family and passed my father's urn to me. As the honor Guard left my sister asked if the Honor Guard was AF or Cadets, she said they look so young to be AF.
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To me being old school is about perception from the traditional past to the ever dynamic present. There is a level of respect being old school, on the other hand, old habits can be troublesome.
The previous uniforms, equipment, chow, work culture and behavior is +++ in remembrance. Sometimes it is close then I see something that reminds me of that era and I may instinctively without a lingering thought go there in my mind or in action. Sometimes it is far far away in my mind and I lock it in there. In the latter, these things are locked away for reasons of lessons learned? Maybe I dont want to relieve them.
As humans, we are all creatures of habit. Leaders are change agents, and as such some of a leader's habits may give the perception of behavior from a different time. Is being old school bad? Not necessarily. Some behaviors are harmless while others may be both unethical or inappropriate in the present time.
I remember my first duty assignment at Ft. Ord, 7th ID and the Platoon Sgt, a Vietnam service member, and referred the Orderly Room as the Orderly House. People my age thought he was a old school. There were many Vietnam service members in the platoon and unit who were prior service and those who stayed in the military. I was 18 years old and one of the new replacements in a squad of these seasoned veterans. It was a different era and a different planet.
The uniform of the day was cotton fatigues and highly shined boots. Exceeding standards he would break starch and blouse the boots using inserts and rubber bands. He looked like a walking cardboard box. Common hair style of the 70s permanent party was different than today's standards.
My understanding and experience with blood stripes. My story is that when I was promoted to E-5/Sgt the rank insignia was place on the collar and pounded in. Not on the collar bone! Drawing a little blood and pain meant that I was not one of the troops anymore and the pain was to make sure I knew it. I made E-5 twice.
The previous uniforms, equipment, chow, work culture and behavior is +++ in remembrance. Sometimes it is close then I see something that reminds me of that era and I may instinctively without a lingering thought go there in my mind or in action. Sometimes it is far far away in my mind and I lock it in there. In the latter, these things are locked away for reasons of lessons learned? Maybe I dont want to relieve them.
As humans, we are all creatures of habit. Leaders are change agents, and as such some of a leader's habits may give the perception of behavior from a different time. Is being old school bad? Not necessarily. Some behaviors are harmless while others may be both unethical or inappropriate in the present time.
I remember my first duty assignment at Ft. Ord, 7th ID and the Platoon Sgt, a Vietnam service member, and referred the Orderly Room as the Orderly House. People my age thought he was a old school. There were many Vietnam service members in the platoon and unit who were prior service and those who stayed in the military. I was 18 years old and one of the new replacements in a squad of these seasoned veterans. It was a different era and a different planet.
The uniform of the day was cotton fatigues and highly shined boots. Exceeding standards he would break starch and blouse the boots using inserts and rubber bands. He looked like a walking cardboard box. Common hair style of the 70s permanent party was different than today's standards.
My understanding and experience with blood stripes. My story is that when I was promoted to E-5/Sgt the rank insignia was place on the collar and pounded in. Not on the collar bone! Drawing a little blood and pain meant that I was not one of the troops anymore and the pain was to make sure I knew it. I made E-5 twice.
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CW5 (Join to see)
Good point about level of respect, SSG Mike Angelo! Equally good point about the possibility of old habits being troublesome -- "We've always done it that way" can be a problem.
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PV2 Abbott Shaull
We've always done it that way is problem almost anywhere you go when something is about to change.
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