Posted on Sep 28, 2015
What do you think about having enlisted drone pilots in the USAF?
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A lot of info here about the RPA career field any how the decision will be made in 2016 on whether or not to allow enlisted Airman to be RPA pilots...possibly even fly conventional aircraft in the future.
With all of the changes over the years with enlisted jobs being switched to officer jobs such as Sensor Operators on AC-130s and enlisted Weapons Directors being taken off of AWACS what are your thoughts on this subject?
http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/careers/air-force/enlisted/2015/09/28/enlisted-drone-pilots-decision-expected-early-next-year/72806812/
With all of the changes over the years with enlisted jobs being switched to officer jobs such as Sensor Operators on AC-130s and enlisted Weapons Directors being taken off of AWACS what are your thoughts on this subject?
http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/careers/air-force/enlisted/2015/09/28/enlisted-drone-pilots-decision-expected-early-next-year/72806812/
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 39
Well, my two cents. I'm a retired Air Force jet engine, F-15, and F-4G maintenance technician. I currently work for a commuter airline as an aircraft maintenance inspector. I have over 30 years in the career.
We have several sayings amongst enlisted maintainers: It takes a PhD or Masters degree to design it, a Bachelors to fly it, and a High School or Associates to fix what the previous three screwed up. To err is human, but to really mess up takes a college degree. The three scariest things to hear while in the military; 1) A 2nd Lt saying, "Based on my experience..." 2) A Captain saying, "I've been thinking, ..." 3) When a SNCO says, "Now watch what happens next."
The flight manual for most aircraft consists of one or two volumes, the maintenance manuals consist of hundreds depending on the airframe. Enlisted maintenance personnel have to also employ numerous other guidelines, manuals, instructions, etc., while performing their duties. The knowledge/skill base is no smaller than it is for officers. Now, to be clear, I always got along with pilots, though there's a few I wouldn't let drive a bus.
Entry level commercial airline pilots have the equivalent of an Associates in Applied Science degree. It's all about the training, meeting the requirements, and demonstrating the aptitude. Drones/RPV's are generally operated much like a group of gamers on Xbox.
Like a Helmsman in the Navy, the guy/gal who drives the ship/submarine, they receive commands from the Captain and execute them. That's how I see it in drone flying also.
We have several sayings amongst enlisted maintainers: It takes a PhD or Masters degree to design it, a Bachelors to fly it, and a High School or Associates to fix what the previous three screwed up. To err is human, but to really mess up takes a college degree. The three scariest things to hear while in the military; 1) A 2nd Lt saying, "Based on my experience..." 2) A Captain saying, "I've been thinking, ..." 3) When a SNCO says, "Now watch what happens next."
The flight manual for most aircraft consists of one or two volumes, the maintenance manuals consist of hundreds depending on the airframe. Enlisted maintenance personnel have to also employ numerous other guidelines, manuals, instructions, etc., while performing their duties. The knowledge/skill base is no smaller than it is for officers. Now, to be clear, I always got along with pilots, though there's a few I wouldn't let drive a bus.
Entry level commercial airline pilots have the equivalent of an Associates in Applied Science degree. It's all about the training, meeting the requirements, and demonstrating the aptitude. Drones/RPV's are generally operated much like a group of gamers on Xbox.
Like a Helmsman in the Navy, the guy/gal who drives the ship/submarine, they receive commands from the Captain and execute them. That's how I see it in drone flying also.
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Capt Walter Miller
When teenagers engage in dangerous behavior, adults usually chalk it up to some innate fondness for risk — the thrill of an unsafe situation.
But in fact, adolescents may be more risk-averse than adults, a new study has found. Their willingness to engage in risky behavior may have less to do with thrill-seeking per se than with a higher tolerance for uncertain consequences, researchers reported Monday.
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/oct/02/news/la-heb-teens-risk-averse-20121001
But in fact, adolescents may be more risk-averse than adults, a new study has found. Their willingness to engage in risky behavior may have less to do with thrill-seeking per se than with a higher tolerance for uncertain consequences, researchers reported Monday.
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/oct/02/news/la-heb-teens-risk-averse-20121001
Teens and risky behavior: More complicated than it seems?
When teenagers engage in dangerous behavior, adults usually chalk it up to some innate fondness for risk - the thrill of an unsafe situation.But in fact, adolescents may be more risk-averse...
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I think that skill and talent in operating these weapons systems have no basis in rank requirement. If an enlisted person shows the skill and aptitude necessary then the real right answer is to use the best and most qualified person for the job. The commission does not equal competence or technical proficiency. If the enlisted drone pilot is more skilled then come up with a warrant officer program that recognizes his competence and put him to work.
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MCPO Roger Collins
Totally agree, I would challenge any of these overpaid 0s to play computer games against my 11 and 14 year old grandsons. Since they have to request permission to go to the bathroom, mine have the advantage on them. New recruits have already had years of experience on computers and simulations. Use some form of testing and put them on the track to be drone drivers if they pass. Pilot problem solved and far more less cost.
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Why not? With their "gaming" skills they can probably controll an RPA better than most active officer flyers.
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I'm against it. Naval officers have been burdened with more responsibility than infantry officers (for example) because the vessels they command are pieces of America. They expand the national boundaries to touch on those of other nations whenever they sail across waters. Thus they are diplomatic officers as well as military officers. Thus they enjoy a somewhat loftier perch than their non-naval counterparts. Those who pilot aircraft are modern adaptations of the same concept. Having a non-commissioned person pilot a warcraft into the airspace of another nation is to put a heap of responsibility on the shoulders of those who are not prepared to carry it.
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The one thing I found interesting was the legal part of this article. I find it humorous that they would think dropping a bomb needs to be done by an officer. While I have never dropped a bomb, I have been a trigger puller in combat. there was never a officer next to me saying "OK shoot that one, now shoot that one." Come to think of it most of the time there was not an officer even with us. ROEs are established, they are a lawful order and all are required to comply. What makes an airborn weapon any different than a Hellfire launched from the ground?
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LCDR (Join to see)
When a pilot drops a bomb, they are engaging an area far larger than you could have as a single rifleman. They are engaging areas it would take an entire squad to engage, and doing far more damage in the process. Who is generally giving the orders for larger units of soldiers to engage an area? An officer, or senior NCO, right? Additionally, the likelihood of collateral damage and the sheer amount of possible contingincies in a single mission for pilots requires a degree of authority to deviate for any said contingincy. Not saying enlisted personnel don't have that type of authority, but it's usually not something given early enough in their career to be useful as a pilot given the long training pipeline and the investment to train them. And by the time you factor in all that, why not just make being an officers a requirement to be a pilot to fairly compensate them for skills that would get them much higher pay outside of the military, even as an officer.
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SFC James Barnes
funny Army FO's call in artillery and other fun stuff. If they are JTAC they even call in bombs. Not being argumentative just pointing out that junior enlisted are capable.
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LCDR (Join to see)
Does it take 2.5 years before being deployable to be a JTAC? Do JTACs get desirable and high paying job offers while they're still in the military? Those are the problems the military has to address with pilots, which is why the officer requirement exists to be a pilot. Those problems would not exist for purely drone operators, so it makes sense to loosen the requirements in that case.
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My title rank says Cpt. However, my profile notes show that be as a GS12, the site doesn't allow for that. I was enlisted as active duty, and I made the mistake of not finishing college because it was too easy and too boring.
I have a private pilots license, and I picked up how to fly a helicopter rather easily. I have spent most of my life in a command or supervisory role, and a lot of people say I can be very smart at times.
However, I have met countless enlisted persons whom are significantly smarter than I am. Extrapolate those numbers service wide, and you have a huge pool of enlisted people smart enough to learn to fly, and have good communicating and leadership skills.
So, yes, drone piloting should be opened up to the enlisted ranks.
The FAST test should weed out most who won't pass flight school.
I have a private pilots license, and I picked up how to fly a helicopter rather easily. I have spent most of my life in a command or supervisory role, and a lot of people say I can be very smart at times.
However, I have met countless enlisted persons whom are significantly smarter than I am. Extrapolate those numbers service wide, and you have a huge pool of enlisted people smart enough to learn to fly, and have good communicating and leadership skills.
So, yes, drone piloting should be opened up to the enlisted ranks.
The FAST test should weed out most who won't pass flight school.
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