Posted on May 28, 2015
What does the National Guard offer that the Reserves doesn't and Vice-Versa?
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If you were a recruiter, what would your angle be?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 42
While both are reserve components, and while both have been blurred since 911... ARNG is the state militia, and under the command of the governor in normal times... The guard belongs to the state, and routinely provides support to local, and state governments and law enforcement for a wide variety of contingencies. They can also be augmentation forces to the Regular Army, when needed. The Reserves are simply always just augmentation forces to the Active Army. The Guard seems much more exciting and relevant day in and day out.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Col Williams, respectfully, a point of contention here. The National Guard is actually not THE militia. It is made up of militia members (able bodied males) between 18-45, but only those members who have agreed to enlist as members willing to be called up for Federal service.
The following quote comes from the provided link.
Sen. Proctor (36 Cong. Rec. 125 (Dec. 9 1902): "The old law makes every able-bodied man in the country a member of the militia, and provides no further organization. This bill separates and makes a class which can be called into active service."
Proctor, at p. 305: "The National Guard is in full organization; it is already created and would naturally be first called upon if wanted for a limited time, and then the militia would be called upon."
http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2005/04/is_the_national.php
The following quote comes from the provided link.
Sen. Proctor (36 Cong. Rec. 125 (Dec. 9 1902): "The old law makes every able-bodied man in the country a member of the militia, and provides no further organization. This bill separates and makes a class which can be called into active service."
Proctor, at p. 305: "The National Guard is in full organization; it is already created and would naturally be first called upon if wanted for a limited time, and then the militia would be called upon."
http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2005/04/is_the_national.php
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1SG (Join to see)
Don't let the state governors fool you, there is so much more directive from National Guard Bureau (NGB) than you think. We do things much different than the active component but we are still held to their standards because folks at NGB are with the active component folks at the Department of the Army and Pentagon.
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COL Charles Williams
Thanks 1SG (Join to see) SSG Gerhard S.. Thanks for the comments and clarification. I appreciate the detail.
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SSG Gerhard S.
You're welcome COL Charles Williams. I would also like to agree with 1SG (Join to see) that the NG, at least in my experience is held to a high standard as evidenced by the number of units and commanders that were quite surprised to learn we were a National Guard LRS unit AFTER we had performed in an exemplary manner in theatre.
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First off, I am in the National Guard so that makes it pretty awesome. But there a lot of factors going on. Each state is different. I have looked at the Reserves too. Being how I am infantry there isn't a traditional infantry unit I could go too. But there are training and other duties that I could do as an infantry officer. You would really have too look at the surrounding units. I know promotion in the Reserves can be quicker and from I understand they can pay for travel. What really keeps me in the Guard is the combat arms side. I like infantry and want to try SF. I couldn't do that in the Reserves. Push in usually the state will offer more benefits to guard members also.
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CPT (Join to see)
SFC James Sczymanski I was referring to why I am in the Guard. I do realize that there is one infantry battalion that falls under a NG command for operational task org but I have no means of going to HI and being a part of that. I was saying there isn't any that I could go to.
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The guard offers jobs close to home with promotion opportunities close to home. The reserves cannot provide this. In the reserves the chances of having to travel hundreds of miles to drill is high. This makes leadership difficult also. In the guard most of your Soldiers will live in the immediate area.
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SPC (Join to see)
If it is a BENEFIT to not be called up by the State for relief or police augmentation issues, then wow SSG. Serving the country apparently does not include the community. I don't believe his logic is completely flawed. The semantics of his opening statement, maybe. However, the point he was bringing up is that in the Reseves is it highly likely that you will NOT be stationed close to home. As a 68W of course there would be a wide range of units open to you....everyone needs a medic.
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Lots of good information, and lots of half-truths.
I spent 22 years in the Guard, 11 in the Reserve, and 5 on Active Duty.
There is more politics in the Guard, but then as a purely state force, this should be expected. In Texas, the Airborne Mafia was well known for getting the lion's share of funding, at least in the 80's.
In addition to the 2 Guard SF groups someone else mentioned, there were two Reserve groups, the 11th and 12th. The 12th was headquartered in Oklahoma City, with a detachment near Dallas, and my unit jumped with them regularly. But the real story on what is available is what you want and how much you are willing to suffer to get it.
I know paratroopers who commuted monthly from Texas to Mississippi to stay in an Airborne unit. I know of people who did 20 years and retired as a SP4 - because they wanted to jump more than get promoted.
Promotion in the Guard can be very difficult. You have to have an EMPTY slot (no double slotting), and you have to be fully MOSQ to be put into it BEFORE you can get a promotion. So you either go to schools to get MOSQed, or you wait for the guy above you to die or get promoted.
Personally, I looked for opportunities to get extra training, and qualified for slots that no one else wanted. I retired with MOSs in 5 career fields, 11B, C, and H, 19K, 25B, 37F, and 96B.
I made E-7 as an instructor in a Reserve school. It was a retirement home for broke people and the unit I was least proud to be associated with. But that's life - I got the promotion, I did the job, and I went back to a field unit as soon as I could manage it.
The Guard does specialize in combat units, especially Infantry. That doesn't means the Reserves don't deploy - just ask the PSYOP, Civil Affairs, and Water Purification units.
On active duty, you do your job, the Army rotates you regularly to other units, and you get promoted from a list. This is the significant difference between the Active and Reserve forces. You have more control over your career in the Reserves and Guard, but YOU have to take care of it yourself. If you don't push, you can stay in the same job for your entire career. And if the only unit within driving distance is a Laundry and Bath unit, you can either go with it, or you fly to drills. It's very much up to you, and how much it's worth to you.
I spent 22 years in the Guard, 11 in the Reserve, and 5 on Active Duty.
There is more politics in the Guard, but then as a purely state force, this should be expected. In Texas, the Airborne Mafia was well known for getting the lion's share of funding, at least in the 80's.
In addition to the 2 Guard SF groups someone else mentioned, there were two Reserve groups, the 11th and 12th. The 12th was headquartered in Oklahoma City, with a detachment near Dallas, and my unit jumped with them regularly. But the real story on what is available is what you want and how much you are willing to suffer to get it.
I know paratroopers who commuted monthly from Texas to Mississippi to stay in an Airborne unit. I know of people who did 20 years and retired as a SP4 - because they wanted to jump more than get promoted.
Promotion in the Guard can be very difficult. You have to have an EMPTY slot (no double slotting), and you have to be fully MOSQ to be put into it BEFORE you can get a promotion. So you either go to schools to get MOSQed, or you wait for the guy above you to die or get promoted.
Personally, I looked for opportunities to get extra training, and qualified for slots that no one else wanted. I retired with MOSs in 5 career fields, 11B, C, and H, 19K, 25B, 37F, and 96B.
I made E-7 as an instructor in a Reserve school. It was a retirement home for broke people and the unit I was least proud to be associated with. But that's life - I got the promotion, I did the job, and I went back to a field unit as soon as I could manage it.
The Guard does specialize in combat units, especially Infantry. That doesn't means the Reserves don't deploy - just ask the PSYOP, Civil Affairs, and Water Purification units.
On active duty, you do your job, the Army rotates you regularly to other units, and you get promoted from a list. This is the significant difference between the Active and Reserve forces. You have more control over your career in the Reserves and Guard, but YOU have to take care of it yourself. If you don't push, you can stay in the same job for your entire career. And if the only unit within driving distance is a Laundry and Bath unit, you can either go with it, or you fly to drills. It's very much up to you, and how much it's worth to you.
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Army Reserve Civil Affairs has the most airborne slots of any unit in the Guard or Reserves. Come jump with one of our six airborne battalions! Note that getting in to one of these units is not easy. Be prepared to sell your skills to the Commander.
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The National Guard offers a geographic limitation in where a soldier or airman can serve whereas the Reserves is a global force. Unfortunately, this limitation in geography also comes with increased nepotism (friends and family units) and decreased promotion opportunities (sometimes overcome by political activism and support of governor). The Reserves have units throughout the US and OCONUS, which is necessary to ensure soldiers and airman can find promotion/unit assignments. Unfortunately, this usually means the soldier or airman must travel extensively to maintain unit affiliation and obtain promotions. This can lead to stress at home and limited civilian career opportunities.
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MSG (Join to see)
COL Scott Harrison, I concur. My unit is second only to my family. While all you say is true, our continuity is one of our greatest strengths but also our greatest weakness. I don't really want to change components but I think the writing is on the wall and it appears to be time to move on, especially since my state is small (NG-wise) and no so fiscally responsible.
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COL (Join to see)
I spent 10 years NG (Enlisted and Officer), 17 years active (Enlisted and Officer, AC and mobilized USAR) and another 10 years USAR. Had I stayed NG, my career would have been stunted at CPT. But the move meant I had to travel by plane, train or automobile, across state lines, to remain in the USAR and continue to obtain promotions. This is not something everyone will do.
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The National Guard has the RC combat units and that is huge. They also offer state educations benefits which are unmatched by the USAR. In Iowa, a NG Soldier who is AIT complete gets 100% tuition assistance to one of the 3 state schools. This does not affect G.I. Bill benefits so these Soldiers get considerably more college paid for. I think the USAR offers more opportunities for senior NCOs and officers because each state will stovepipe at the top and senior promotions will be based on a vacancy opened up when someone usually retires. As a Federal force, the USAR gives more flexibility in assignments since you are not tied to one state (that may require more travel). Also, I think there is less of the "good old boy" network in the USAR. Because many senior NG appointments are political, that opens the door for more corruption. Both will allow a person to serve the Nation in a great way while pursuing a civilian career.
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Reserves provides an easier means of transferring from one place to another. I move when the Army PCSes my spouse, that could be anywhere. Instead of having to jump through hoops or spend a wasted year (that doesn't count to retirement) in the IRR the Reserves is everywhere there is an Active component (Germany, Korea, etc). There are some MOS differences as others have mentioned, the mission is different, and the funding is different (state vs. federal).
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I'll tackle promotions only:
Reserves have more promotion available for all MOS depending on HRC-released slots. In the Guard, promotion is only within the state you belong to, which could take a lifetime to promote. Whereas in the Reserves you can get promoted across state lines to different Regional Support Commands. Had a Soldier transfer from NC to TX when he got promoted to E-7.
Reserves have more promotion available for all MOS depending on HRC-released slots. In the Guard, promotion is only within the state you belong to, which could take a lifetime to promote. Whereas in the Reserves you can get promoted across state lines to different Regional Support Commands. Had a Soldier transfer from NC to TX when he got promoted to E-7.
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MSG Morgan Fiszel, CPCM, CFCM
it doesn't take a lifetime if you are willing to get a 2nd, 3rd or 4th MOS / branch. Re-classing in the guard is easy. Promotions depend on your branch / MOS. Branch / MOS can be problematic in both the guard and the reserves. If you do your homework and know what types of units are in your area prior to enlisting / commissioning you will be fine. I would rather spend 15 minutes driving to and from drill with 2 days at drill than travel across the planet.
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COL (Join to see)
It doesn't take long if your father, mother, uncle, brother, etc. happens to be assigned to the State HQ or is friends with the governor. Promotions in the guard are not always based on what you know but on who you know.
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SSG (Join to see)
I would say that promotions in the Guard are faster and more straight forward. Since switching to the Reserves, I've noticed there is far more paperwork involved. The whole process to go from E-4 to E-5 in the Reserves is very convoluted. Whereas in the Guard you have a 4100, the Reserves require the individual soldier to create a packet for submission to a promotion board. I am in a situation now where I was recommended for promotion by my battalion promotion board, but will not be placed on the upcoming PPRL because my unit never generated a "MOS reclassification packet." This packet is evidently required to produce "MOS orders." I've never heard of such a packet. I had already completed my re-class school several months before the board. This process is way too complicated.
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COL (Join to see)
The promotion system for enlisted in the NG is easier than the Reserves because it is a smaller population and the board process is centralized at the state level. For officers, they still need federal recognition to wear their rank beyond the borders of the state, so the formal board process for the NG and RC are pretty much the same. However, there may be a limited number of slots for a given rank, limiting promotion options. Having spent 10 years in the National Guard, the one thing that became obvious was a select group of people who were promoted as soon as they met minimum TIG or through Unit Vacancy Promotions. The common denominator was close political ties to the governor or family relationships with senior state officials (TAG, MILPO, etc.). It was quite a learning experience on a reality in life, it isn't fair.
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I served in the reserves. I knew several guard personnel. It seemed, and this is just an opinion, that there were more politics with the guard.
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Capt (Join to see)
I only feel that way because the ones that I knew complained about it often. One member was my boss's boss.
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SSG Gerhard S.
I believe @don porter and @sfc james s. are correct. I have witnessed the politics of the Guard. There can be entrenched personnel at the State level that can sometimes give the impression of a "good old boys" club. (a not always unfounded impression) This may not be true of all States, but I am simply making an observation in support of the comments above. I believe this has something to do with a smaller and a more closed chain of command system, whereby Officers, and Senior Enlisted came up through the ranks, and create relationships over the course of a career in that closed system. In the Reserves, and in the Army, there tends to be more movement between stations, that serves to break up, or make ineffectual, such long term relationships.
Again, just my observances.
Again, just my observances.
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