Posted on Apr 26, 2018
What exactly is the difference between a Master Sergeant and a 1st Sergeant? Is one technically higher than the other?
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Do you know the difference between a Platoon Sergeant and a Sergeant First Class?
Similar, but at a higher level.
Similar, but at a higher level.
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Same pay not same job or respect , Top arrives two hours before everybody and stays two hours later than everyone
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The First Sergeant is directly in the chain of command under the Company Commander, a master sergeant can hold many administrative positions, but is not in the chain of command. In that respect the First Sergeant out ranks a master sergeant. To get touchy the First Sergeant is at company level directly below the Company Commander, a master sergeant at battalion level is not in the chain of command but is above the company level nco's.
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Yes a 1SG is in a Command position and leads all the Soldiers in his company. Usually a MSG is in a non leadership post per say G1 Nurses etc Does that make sense
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So, help a sailor out. I haven’t been attached to the Marines yet, and in high school rotc we only had c/1SGs and a c/CSM. No c/SPC, no c/MSG, no c/SGM.
MSG & SGM are NCOs in charge of the staff on an S (S-1, S-2, etc.)
Does that make them specialists in their area? Similar to difference between CPL and SPC? (SGM:MSG:SPC:::CSM:1SG:CPL).
They’re NCOs, whereas SPC aren’t, but are they specialists in their MOS? Navy/USCG, we have Command/Force/Fleet Chiefs, where they’re not the lead in a Department, but the senior sailor on board. Is that the model? Or a first-among-equals kind of thing?
Different culture, just trying to learn. Thanks!
MSG & SGM are NCOs in charge of the staff on an S (S-1, S-2, etc.)
Does that make them specialists in their area? Similar to difference between CPL and SPC? (SGM:MSG:SPC:::CSM:1SG:CPL).
They’re NCOs, whereas SPC aren’t, but are they specialists in their MOS? Navy/USCG, we have Command/Force/Fleet Chiefs, where they’re not the lead in a Department, but the senior sailor on board. Is that the model? Or a first-among-equals kind of thing?
Different culture, just trying to learn. Thanks!
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CSM Richard StCyr
You're pretty close, 1SG work with and advise company commanders and run companies health welfare and training and CSM do like wise with battalion and higher echelons.
MSG depending on the units type, run the S staffs or tech sections generally at the Brigade level, some Battalions depending on size and type have them as NCOIC of different sections or staff.
SGM are usually NCOIC of the S sections at Division or higher echelons and as an Engineer we had one for our Operations NCO at Battalion level.
The Army and it's Specialist rank verses Corporal is that the Corporal is serving and actually manning a Sergeants slot on the MTOE usually a team leader and in charge of several troops but usually less than a Squad. The specialist is generally not in a team leader position.
MSG depending on the units type, run the S staffs or tech sections generally at the Brigade level, some Battalions depending on size and type have them as NCOIC of different sections or staff.
SGM are usually NCOIC of the S sections at Division or higher echelons and as an Engineer we had one for our Operations NCO at Battalion level.
The Army and it's Specialist rank verses Corporal is that the Corporal is serving and actually manning a Sergeants slot on the MTOE usually a team leader and in charge of several troops but usually less than a Squad. The specialist is generally not in a team leader position.
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SSgt Nevin Kirkland
In the Marine Corps the First Sergeant is generally an administrative post, responsible for the overall administration, including counseling and discipline, of the unit. For that reason, especially the disciplinary part, First Sergeants are generally perceived as more authoritative, especially to junior Marines. A Marine of any MOS can become a First Sergeant and then be assigned MOS 8999 (previously, 9999).
On the other hand, Master Sergeants are usually experts in their MOS and work as an E-8 in their specific MOS field. To junior Marines, Master Sergeants are still treated with the same level of respect as the First Sergeant, but not typically feared as much since they are not usually the disciplinarians that the First Sergeant is required to be.
Generally, most (but not all), Gunnery Sergeants want to become First Sergeants and ultimately Sergeants Major. Part of the reasoning there is they get burned out on their MOS and becoming a First Sergeant let's them have the ability to operate in a different skill set. However, First Sergeant billets are fewer and the Marine Corps needs Master Sergeants too, so not everybody gets their wish.
On the other hand, Master Sergeants are usually experts in their MOS and work as an E-8 in their specific MOS field. To junior Marines, Master Sergeants are still treated with the same level of respect as the First Sergeant, but not typically feared as much since they are not usually the disciplinarians that the First Sergeant is required to be.
Generally, most (but not all), Gunnery Sergeants want to become First Sergeants and ultimately Sergeants Major. Part of the reasoning there is they get burned out on their MOS and becoming a First Sergeant let's them have the ability to operate in a different skill set. However, First Sergeant billets are fewer and the Marine Corps needs Master Sergeants too, so not everybody gets their wish.
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I was in the position of 1sgt for about 3 months while still an SFC. Our old 1sgt had left on a compassionate reassignment. Then the replacement E8 assigned the duty arrived and I went back to my regular duties. I was happily surprised that the other E8s in the company gave me no problems. None of them wanted the job. lol.
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SGT Don Sanker
MSG Hutch, I saw that rather frequently while assigned to an infantry battalion. As soon as the E-8 list was published the newly minted SFC (P)s were placed in First Sergeant positions. Always thought it was a bit unfair, doing the 1SG work and getting paid as an SFC!
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A SPC doesn't know?. Ok there is no difference in pay, but undoubted in power/position. Bothe are E8, the MSG is on staff at BN and higher as the Section NCOIC and controls that section as it's senior NCOIC. The 1SG is a command title- he is the senior NCO of a Company, head enlisted advisor to the Company Commander. It is no different the SGM/CSM- SGM are in charge of staffs, CSM are in charge as the senior NCO of units.
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The difference is level of authority they have and duties they carry. Just like a corporal is to a specialist; they are the blame Rank and same pay but the coporal has more authority and usually more duties than a specialist. A 1SG usually the highest NCO of a company level.
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SGT (Join to see)
Ha, that’s when the phrase “uh, SGM, don’t confuse your rank with my authority” comes in handy.
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1SG Billye Jackson
Had a CSM tell me and all the other 1st Sgts one time we worked for hem. The Commanders made sure that the Bn CDR set hem Strat. FAST. My most Challenging and Best Time as a 1st Sgt was in a HHB in Germany, it was also my First, Talk about being thrown into a Meat Grinder. 247 Off and EM.
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I retired 48 years ago in 1971 so I do not know what the current regulations are. In 1971 when I retired a First Sergeant was appointed the ranking enlisted man regardless of time in grade or time in service of any other E8s in the Company. Since I was First Sergeant of Headquarters Company and the Battalion Sergeant Major (E9) was a member it was customary that he attend formations when I requested although not required. I did not experience any problems on that score the 3 years I was First Sergeant. My retirement Orders and Retired ID Card indicate my rank as 1SG E8.
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yes, they get paid the same as a E8, but 1SG is a position of leadership like the CO, so yes a 1SG outranks a MSG.
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One usually is an office worker while the other is not. The 1st Sgt is usually out with the company. While the MSG is in an office doing all the paper work or with the Cpt or another officer.
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Both are Pay grade E-8. The First Sergeant is a Leadership position at the company level. Master Sargeants are generally more staff related position. The MSG may be senior NCO like an Operatons Sergeant in a Detachment or Battalion or higher Staff section. Once a First Sergeant moves out of the position he becomes a master sergeant. There is a similar situation with Sergeant Majors. There are Command Sergeant Majors and Sergeant Majors. The CSM is a command position. Both are the right hands of their respective commander and generally speak with the authority of the commander.
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A First Sargent runs the Company, and is the Senior Enlisted Advisor to the Company Commander. A Master Sargent might be in charge of one of the Battalion's "S" sections, or for example When I was stationed at Fort Lee as an instructor, The Petroleum Supply Specalist School had a Sargent Major, and a Master Sargent as his second.
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Similar to what has already been said the same difference as a SPC and a CPL only at a higher level. The biggest difference is that as a CPL, the Department of the Army can appoint you the rank of CPL which you would not lose unless you are punished and go back to being a SPC, where as a MSG when appointed to the rank and position of 1SG and they finish that assignment and move on to another unit they go back automatically to being a MSG. There isn't a permanent assignment to being a 1SG. Each unit they go to has to appoint them to the position. Also a SFC Promotable can be "frocked" to the position and wear the rank of a 1SG without the pay of an E-8 but all the duties and responsibilities of the position and the rank attached to it.
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Your curiosity is not without merit. However, you may find your answer locally from your unit and within your NCO chain.
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I have a bit to add myself, Special Forces, Special Mission Units & Special Operations work at a different structure. Companys are managed by a SGM and Team Sergeants & Team Leaders are a MSG. There are very few 1SG slots in such units and are assigned at a Detachment level or at a Special Warfare School with the 1SG duties. NCOIC are a SGM position. The 1SG are considered staff position and a MSG is operational. The CSM positions is only at Detachment or Group positions. However, promotion wise the 1SG has higher considerations at promotion boards. Most MSGs prefer to remain on teams which the slot for 1SG is a ticket puncher to CSM. That was more or less the structure in my day but things change. Most of which I believe is the same today.
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A Master Sergeant is an E-8 and always will be; despite their role within a unit. While the First Sergeant Role is and E-8 position, it may be filled by someone of a lower rank. As an E-6 (Staff Sergeant) I served as the Company First Sergeant when my First Sergeant allowed all of the Comapny's E-7 take leave at the same time along with himself. I also served as Company First Sergeant as an E-7 (Sergeant First Class) when my First Sergeant was away at First Sergeants School. Both were temporary assignments of course. Technically, the First Sergeant Position is above the Master Sergeant within the company. But a Temporary First Sergeant better beware if he/she pushes a Master Sergeant around with her/his temporary position.
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