Posted on May 25, 2016
SGT Military Police
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During an APFT, there is no requirement to measure/survey a 2 mile course prior to the APFT. Is there a regulation that would disqualify the entire APFT?
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MSG Pat Colby
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Edited >1 y ago
Good Lord I'm having flashbacks. We had a running route ( city Blocks/streets) laid out near our Unit Building for the conduct of an APFT. No less than 5 different people/Units all Wheeled it out on foot and came to different spots. Some used the middle of the street, some used the furthest from the corners, and others used the shortest distance around the corners. Some just staggered or Methed their way all over the road. Of course each of them used spray paint to mark their Start and Finish lines AND The 1/2, 1, and 1.5 mile marks. This happened EVERY FUCKING YEAR ON THE SAME FUCKING ROUTE! One year along came some Staff Puke Officer who measured it with the odometer of his car and tried to spray paint over ALL lines everyone else marked off on the entire route. Toss in the 2.5 mile route and you now have an Official Cluster-Fuck.

And people wondered why I drank as the Training NCO. Good luck on this one, Buddy. I'm going to mix a drink and toast my beloved DD 214 that shields me from this nonsense!
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SGT Dave Tracy
SGT Dave Tracy
>1 y
LOL!!
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MSG Jay Jackson
MSG Jay Jackson
>1 y
I always measured from the center of the road or find a two mile stretch.
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PV2 Power Generation Equipment Repairer
PV2 (Join to see)
>1 y
I have an awesome app on my phone called "map my run" it's by under armor I've yet to see if our track (not really a track but a path" we run on is within regs. I'm sure they slip in about and extra 1/4 mile or so on us it's a fun track though camp dodge in Johnston Iowa
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SFC Opsnco
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As a former Training NCO I have to concur with your assessment.
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SGM Erik Marquez
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SGT (Join to see) "What happens if it is found the APFT 2 mile track is not at the appropriate measurement?"
1:Confirm your position, have a an unbiased peer confirm your belief.
2:Inform the commander of your findings.
3:Provide a recommendation and solution.
If you're unwilling or unable to do all three, especially #3 pick a different battle, and take a good look inward and ask yourself if "no one is more professional then I" is applicable.
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SGM Robin Johnson
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Edited >1 y ago
FM 7-22 states in Appendix A para A16 and A33 that the two-mile course will be measured. If it is not a TWO MILE course, it is not a valid test. The way to measure the course is to use the wheel (usually maintained at the fitness facility) to measure the inside lane (or straight line if it is a roadway). If it is a course constructed to specific measurements (half-mile track) that can be avoided. As stated in the regulation, if it is a 400-meter track you must measure and add the additional 61 feet 4 inches to make it two miles. Each unit commander can determine that the measurement is accurate according to their findings, however, if there is a single course being used with many disparate markings the installation will often have the expert at MWR or the fitness facility mark a course and erect permanent markings at each quarter or half mile point.
The reference in para A16 to it not being necessary to survey the course means that no one needs to walk or run the entire course ahead of the run (surveying the course) assuring a previously measured course that has been determined to be relatively level and of a slope no greater than 3% (in other words, meeting the specifications) is OK that particular day. So in practical terms, you don't need to send anyone out to kick the rocks off the course before you send runners, although many units do this just to make sure there are no surprises if they can't see the entirety of the course.
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SGT Military Police
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Thank you SGM Johnson. I appreciate the regulation with your answer!
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What happens if it is found the APFT 2 mile track is not at the appropriate measurement?
COL Strategic Plans Chief
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There is no deviation allowed. If it is not a 2 mile course, the test is invalid. Running 2.1 miles is just as invalid as running 1.9 miles.
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COL Strategic Plans Chief
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Best response I've seen in a while. Totally agree.
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COL Strategic Plans Chief
COL (Join to see)
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MAJ (Join to see) - True. How many artillery rounds do we fire before calling a fire-for-effect? As many as it takes. First one is usually off. Second one is off. Etc. I'd say that the course probably needs to be measured by about 5 people, maybe 6. I'd bet you come up with an average that is better then the individual measurements when you throw out any outliers
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COL Strategic Plans Chief
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>1 y
Lots of talk about how to measure the distance. If you want it done to exact standards, find a horizontal construction Engineer Conpany on post. They have the tools to ensure it is inches close to exactly 2 miles
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
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COL (Join to see) - And it counts as "Training Time" for them.
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SGT David T.
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You are measured on running 2 miles, no more no less. If the track is not two miles then the integrity of the entire test is in question. I am not sure the regulations specifically state it has to be measured. One would think that it's an implied task, otherwise you don't know how far you are running.
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MGySgt James Forward
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That don't make much sense to me unless the course has "already" been marked and measured before. But on the other hand if you have a new course laid out, it must be paced for accuracy with a wheel. But you only gotta DO IT ONE TIME. We has an Infantry MSgt down at Camp Lejuene, NC who did not like the course we always used so he checked out the wheel and paced off the 1 1/2 mile turnaround and back to the starting point. Noe at this time I was a MSgt myself and I did not run that fast, generally it came in around 22:00-22:30 plus or minus 15 seconds. Big day comes and we run the course for score. Maj Stokes the G-3 training Officer was really impressed by his run time of 17:30 and proceeded to walk his score over to the training clerk to be recorded. My time was 19:30 and my CWO4's was the the same...okay Batman riddle me this "How the hell did we just knock three minutes off our run time?" We ask ourselves. Something don't smell right in Denmark. Talk to the MSgt who marked out the course and he said he used the one in the gear closet with the "Red X" on it. Informed the MSgt that that one was pending disposal as it was broken and only registered .8 mile per mile so he he used that one we only ran 2.4 mile. Invalid course! Scratched all my Marines scores and we re-ran it a few days later on our old course. Make that one pissed off Infantry Major and MSgt. Integrity is everything. Semper Fi.
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SGM Erik Marquez
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SGT (Join to see) "there is no requirement to measure/survey a 2 mile course prior to the APFT"

I think you will find FM 7-22 does not support your opinion, and in fact, the OIC and the NCOIC are directed to provide a flat, measured 2-mile running course with a solid surface that is not more than 3 percent grade.
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SGT Assistant Team Leader
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I don't know about a regulation on this one but three years ago at AT (I'm a Reservist) our two mile run track was measured inaccurately- on the short side. I heard estimates ranging from it being off by four hundredths of a mile to a quarter mile.
The commander decided that it would be wrong to punish the soldiers for this error and ordered the whole APFT to count. My time improved to 13:32 that time.
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MSG Military Police
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What happens depends on what your Commander decides as the appropriate COA.
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CSM Darieus ZaGara
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To clarify, you are saying that you are in a non standard tack and you do not believe it was measured?
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SGT Military Police
SGT (Join to see)
>1 y
Correct, it is a basic "loop around the baseball field/football field". Nothing officially marked nor an evenly oval course.
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CSM Darieus ZaGara
CSM Darieus ZaGara
>1 y
Well then there were a couple of other responses that are ikon target. If someone failed and it can be proven that the track was somehow not in compliance then the individual or individuals have and argument. This should be presented to the next level in the COC.
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